Husband won't forgive

Kate_fixing_it

BTW I think your title is wrong. In my eyes you have done nothing "wrong". As someone posted on my DF diary, you made decisions with the best of intentions for your family it's just that an overspend has mounted up.

If he wants to discuss forgiveness he needs to ask for it too - his debt created by building the extension has obviously aided in creating the situation. Whether he can grasp that point is another matter, I know my DH can't

Hugs, Kate x

in_need_of_direction

Not wanting to hijack but, wow Kate, what progress have you made? Ruby if you get a chance to read Kate's diary you should. I'm so happy to see she isn't taking all the blame for the debt anymore. Re your oh, you know his personality in a way that none of us do. Is a prolonged withdrawal (sulk) typical? Would he normally come round? Also, he was probably aware but happyish to let things slide and is now sounding off to avoid taking responsibility for any part of the mess. I'd say just keep your head down for a bit and focus on what needs done. We'll all be here to cheer you on.

Kate_fixing_it

Didn't want to hijack so I've updated my diary - I think it was inneedofdirection that said that to me. I've got to the point where I'm actually angry at being blamed now. Like you, I didn't spend it all on shoes and handbags or even extravagant gifts and champagne binges.

Keep posting Ruby, I don't know how I'd have got through the last weekend without the support of this forum. The people who post here are wonderful, the kindness, support and straight talking is something I've never experienced at this level and it is phenomenally helpful.

Kate x

Prothet_of_Doom

The thing I see in your 1st post is the separation of assets, and income and spending, and given that you have 4 kids (I assume with your husband), and you are married, pretty much everything should be "we".
What you spent, he spent, what he spent, you spent, what you owe he owes. In fact it's one pot of money, and if you split up, the courts would add up the assets, add up the debts and split it 50/50.

Now it may be that you spent some of the money on things you could have done without, but as you say, most of it was things that you thought you needed for the family.

The way I see it is that if YOU are guilty of overspending, then he is guilty of not sharing in the guilt.

He is probably holding some inner guilt, that blokes hold, that says (incorrectly) that it's their job to provide, and he's thinking that he's unable to support you in the way you want to live and the money you think he should provide. So in his head he feels inadequate, and is looking for someone to blame. That person is you.

If there is any way forward, it's to both jointly participate in the plan, to both do a joint spending diary, to both accept the solution is a joint one, and for the budget to be adhered to on both sides, and if there is need to change the budget, for discussions on how you both compromise.

Simply, If he wants to remain married to you, he must be an equal partner in the pain that is required to get your joint finances straight.

Now, me and my wife, we are not perfect. But we have a joint account. All the money goes into that, and to pay the credit card bill, we have to pay it from the joint account.
If the credit card bill is more than normal (normal being £800 a month, paid off every month), we both look at it, and sigh, and take joint responsibility for ensuring we tighten our belts to get through the next month. So the other month we had one, that was £3K, because we had 2 holidays, 2 big car repair bills, 2 cars taxes, and on car insurance, plus sundry items like fuel and food.
So we sat down and agreed which of our savings accounts would need to be raided, and then worked out that we'd have to only spend £80 a week on food instead of the normal £120, and not go out for meals or take aways, for a whole month. The following month, my wife phoned me to ask me if it was alright if she took her sister out to lunch. To be honest I was quite cross that she felt the need to ask. We've worked out a budget, and we have set aside money for meals out, and I don't want her to think I'm in charge. It's a joint responsibility. Yes I'd expect her to discuss ordering something not on the budget, costing a significant amount.

And that's the point of marriage. Partners, clear goals, clear understanding that it's a joint responsibility.

Anyway. Joint spending diary for the OP and her other half.

chillpill

To be honest, I can't actually see what bad you have apparently done to your family (in the eyes of your OH, anyway)?? I'm on a DMP at the moment (£33k o/s - clear by 2018!), so I can empathise with how you 'racked-up' such a high level of debt. To be frank, I'm with you on this one, if you'd had an affair or been dishonest (which you haven't) then you OH may very well be entitled to use the 'trust has gone' card. Things always pan out in life (maybe not always how we predict), so I'd ask your husband to clarify exactly what he thinks you've done wrong!! Like you say, getting into debt is not a crime!! I can only assume your husband is the illusive 'perfect man', who has led a squeaky clean life up to this point (I don't mean to sound rude about your husband!)? Bottom line? If he loves you then your debts won't be an obstacle. If he doesn't (sorry to sound harsh, especially as I don't actually know either you or your husband!), then he may just be using the debt issue as an excuse to walk away. The actions you've taken should be respected, not criticised!! Good luck, hope things pan out as you would like them to!! x

cc321

Well...although your OH sounds like a real moron at the moment, he is certainly not the first OH to turn a blind eye when it suits. I love when my OH doesn't seem to mind an expense that plugs into the wall but thinks a meal out is extravagant. Forget about the 'value' he is placing on the driveway and extension...I'm sure you got just as much pleasure out of the things you purchased and god knows you spent most of it on those d@mn kids!!!

I know - I'm a bad influence but seriously, I had a great therapist that used to say all the time..."you made the best decisions you could have, based on the information you had at the time" If you honestly felt everything was in hand and you did not maliciously and purposely set out to get yourself into this hole, then I really don't think you should be so hard on yourself! You are only human! Even people that hide their debt, I think it is very few that actually wake up every day with the intention of ruining themselves and others, debt is just a vicious cycle. Lucky for me - my credit was ruined (back in 2003) before I really got a chance to be a danger to myself

At this point, "it is what it is". Like you said, it's not a crime and you haven't had an affair...there isn't going to be a jury to convict you of being a bad wife!

I also think the more important thing is that you are "facing it" ! That is amazing and you sound like you have got things under control! The fact that you are not someone clutching onto the pills and the depression is truly amazing - as debt could certainly take you on the downward spiral.

If he can't see what you spent it all on...it's called LIFE! It happens! It costs money! Personally, I would expect him to contribute to the DMP or rearrange your other bills so that he is contributing based on what you feel of the debt should be allocated as 'family debt'.

Life is too short, if he says he can't forgive you then that is his problem. I'm not anti- your OH but you need to focus on the future and if let him decide if he is in or out. You are on the UP now, you are taking charge - this is when he should be praising your efforts not punishing you for the past!!!

I'm going to stop rambling because I'm getting more annoyed with him but just be proud of yourself for getting it sorted and onto the DMP and on the right path and ignore him until he sees the light

Niv

I didn’t want to read and run so thought I would add a fewof my thoughts on this. In general I agree with you and certainly do notbelieve you have done anything so very drastically bad to your family to theextent that you have said your OH has said. As has been said by others and toecho prothet of doom – marriage is a partnership, your OH cannot bury his headin the sand and pretend he knew nothing. If he earns twice as much as you andhe has debts to cover his toy car how the hell does he think you stay debt freeon half the wage?? You have faced up to the family debt issues and it seemsthat he did allow this to go under his radar and so the sums involved are now ashock to him – that does not change the fact that he should be (was) well awareof the credit card debt etc. This is not to say you have been blameless throughall this (but you are rightly not trying to be).

You do say that ‘He seems to think I've spent £27k on shoesand handbags over 12 years of accruing the debt.’ But you don’t say what youdid manage to spend the money on (bearing in mind he pays the bills) so familyfood / kids clothes would come out of that would it or is this from ‘your’money? Either way this does not distract from the fact that he needs to calmdown and try and look at the financial situation calmly and work out the bestway forward with you.

Again, prothet of doom makes some good points, but I do notbelieve that in your circumstances that a joint account would necessarily help as,from your own admission, any ‘spare’ money may be at risk of being spent unwisely – unless of course youare completely cured of your over spending and poor budgeting habit. Also I donot think that your OH will emotionally be in a place to take that step rightnow – so to suggest it may make things worse in the short term.

Your husband does need to realise that you were ill, somepeople do have a problem understanding depression and accepting it as a realillness and also erratic behaviour can be connected to this condition (such asover spending and not thinking about it / realising the problem brewing). Whenhe has calmed down enough to be able to talk maybe it is worth reminding himthat he said ‘he will never be able to forgive what I've done to the family andthat I've put him back years’ and remind him that the finances are for the partnershipto manage and that you have not put him back years but instead the family planshave been delayed – what I am getting at is it is ‘we’ and ‘us’ not ‘mine’ and ‘me’.

Good luck in sorting this out and I hope you and your OH areable to get through this.

rubyinthesky

Wow! Thank you SO much for all of your support and advice! This is a totally amazing place! I half expected to be bawled out by you for being so irresponsible and selfish.

There's too much that you've all written to respond to individually, but I want to say that each and every one of you have helped me realise that it's not the biggest crime in the world.

I'll definitely be checking out your diary Kate.

I'm of half a mind to make hubby read this thread, if I didn't think he'd hit me over the head with his IPad afterwards!!!

Love you all!

dubs57

I think that you are doing the best you can to sort things out financially and that you should be given credit not criticism. You are bravely trying to sort this all out yourself and for this you should feel proud of yourself, whatever the short term outlook.

hettiecarro

Hi
Have read all of the above. Lots of brilliant points made.
If you ARE able to show him this thread, it may be worth pointing out to him that you expected to be judged by people who don't know you - but it hasn't happened.
He does know you. He's your husband, and you deserve a lot more understanding and kindness from him to help get your family back on the straight and narrow - JOINTLY accepting responsibility and JOINTLY working to sort it out.
Good luck Hun