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TV Licence rip off - beware!
Comments
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Cornucopia wrote: »And you don't get Sky Movies on a Freeview box, because the technology does not support subscription.
Sorry but thats not the case.
Top up TV and Setanta Sports both ran a subscription service on Freeview. I agree not all boxes had the card slot, but the technology be run over Freeview.
Just because a box supports the freeview spec it does not mean it cannot have a card slot or CI interface availabe.
The reason for no Sky Movies, is more likely to be because Sky want to drive customers to Now TV or satellite where they have more channels and so can charge a greater price.0 -
Yep - BBC aren't allowed to encrypt their TV channels. Sky's channels are encrypted, and are DEcrypted so that you can view them, using the subscription card which Sky have control over, using their own box.They are prevented from doing so by law (their Charter). And you don't get Sky Movies on a Freeview box, because the technology does not support subscription.0 -
Yep - BBC aren't allowed to encrypt their TV channels. Sky's channels are encrypted, and are DEcrypted so that you can view them, using the subscription card which Sky have control over, using their own box.
And the only way to do secure broadcast encryption is to basically control the receivers (so no more choice of receiver).
Pretty much every CAM based encryption has been broken in the past* because the CAM's have to use a standardised output to the host device, which is one of the reasons Sky will never allow a "bring your own receiver" option (all Sky boxes are made to Sky's spec's with the card module an integral part of the unit, rather than routing it through a CAM standard interface).
Even Sky's encryption which they've spent hundreds of millions (billions?) on over the years is not fully secure as you can still "card share" over the internet (rather funnily the BBC did an article about it on one of their programmes following a team hunting the people selling the equipment).
*There are very persistent (probably because the links are there) rumours Sky and it's parent company may have actually helped break the encryption of competitors and accidentally leaked vital info in the past.0 -
Sorry but thats not the case.
It is if we get our terminology right. DTT is the overall spec for the UK's terrestrial digital TV, and Freeview is a service that runs on it, together with a cut-down spec for boxes that excludes a card slot.
DTT.Top up TV and Setanta Sports both ran a subscription service on...
It means exactly that. A box that is solely Freeview spec means that amongst other things, it does not have a card slot and cannot support that form of encryption/subscription. A box with a broader DTT spec could still receive Freeview services, but also have a card slot for Pay-TV - that is what Top-up TV boxes were.Just because a box supports the freeview spec it does not mean it cannot have a card slot or CI interface availabe.
The issue is that the cheap mass-market STBs were almost exclusively Freeview spec, without a card slot. There are millions of them out there, together with millions of TVs that do not have a card slot.
That is the practical issue here - did you not read the Guardian link I posted?
They would sell it wherever they could make a buck - and I think you probably know that.The reason for no Sky Movies, is more likely to be because Sky want to drive customers to Now TV or satellite where they have more channels and so can charge a greater price.0 -
DVB-T (or DVB=T2 for HD) is the name of the standard, DTT simply is shorthand for Digital Terrestrial Television.
Freeview is in a sense a brand more than a set of technical specs. While they licence the Freeview logo to a box that have certain features that does not mean the non logo'd box cannot receive the DVB-T signals and be a digital TV receiver just that it does not have the freeview logo. As long as the box is DVB-T compliant it will receive UK TV.Cornucopia wrote: »The issue is that the cheap mass-market STBs were almost exclusively Freeview spec, without a card slot. There are millions of them out there, together with millions of TVs that do not have a card slot. .
The boxes sold will of course vary. Many of the cheap ones are actually called Digital set Top boxes and carry the DVB-T logo and do not mention the word Freeview at all. Why, well in the sub £30 market licencing the Freeview logo and putting in the bits like the EPG costs money, and yes its built to a cost.
The makers will put a card slot in in the cheapest way possible if they have to, and it will be to DVB-T standards. The better makers will have them certified to get the Freeview logo too.Cornucopia wrote: »That is the practical issue here - did you not read the Guardian link I posted?.
I glanced at it but its from 2004 and times have changed.
We went from analog to digital mobiles, analog to digital TV and the government is now trying to get rid of FM for DAB.
I come back to my earlier point, The number of cheap STBs is probably about comparable to the number of analog only TVs when Freeview was first announced. Digital switchover took ten years, if they announced a card slot is a requirement in x years many makers will start to incorporate them, some won't for a few years but once people know they have to have on in lets say 2020 they'll start to buy the hardware they need, and makers either include the slot or see sales fall. Remember very few boxes in use now will be in use in 10 years its a reasonable plan to do so.
The key will be the charter review in 2016, The BBC have already stated they want the licence to cover on demand services like iPlayer, increase it and make it universal on each house regardless of if you have a TV. If that's not approved they may seek to move to a subscription, if they so then the the charter will likely be modified to allow them to encrypt the channels.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/mar/10/bbc-licence-fee-model-changes
At the end of the day If you want to watch the service it needs to be paid for be that advert or fee paid. Many of the prized BBC shows cost large amounts of budget, that amount of money is not increasing.Cornucopia wrote: »They would sell it wherever they could make a buck - and I think you probably know that.
Do I think Sky will try and make as much as possible, yes, however that's not Sky's way, they have never had any interest in selling channels separately only as packages.
I'd happily pay a reasonable amount for the F1 channel, but I don't care for football, but despite there being many people like me who would buy a few channels (even if it has to be a bundle of so many channels) Sky will not sell the F1 channel as a separate subscription, nor will they allow Virgin to do so. It is only available to people who have the base Sky package and the Sports pack, and frankly I'm not paying £40 a month for a race or two.
Even the NowTV streaming purchase sells bundles not individual channels.
Selling a bundle of 6 channel for £5 (in the case of now TV) or hundreds of channels on the base £20 sky subscription sounds far better than say £3 a single channel, for just a few pounds more you get so much more choice, but at the end of the day the box can only show one channel at a time.
Don't get me wrong, card based subscription would be a pain to manage, but Sky and Virgin manage it fine, so can the BBC.0 -
There are two distinctions here - Freeview and Digital Terrestrial Television.
Freeview is exactly what its says on the tin. Its free.
DTT on the other hand allows for subscription services, such as BTs two over the air BT Sport channels on BT Vision boxes. But they are not classed as 'Freeview' channels because some form of subscription is required (a BT phone, BB and TV package). Though I can understand why people get confused.0 -
DVB-T (or DVB=T2 for HD) is the name of the standard, DTT simply is shorthand for Digital Terrestrial Television.
Freeview is in a sense a brand more than a set of technical specs.
Spot on. A YouView box can get DVB-T2 channels (HD) But they are not allowed to call them Freeview HD boxes because they don't conform to their Freeview brand specs. But they can and do get them.0 -
I have two boxes with card slots and built in decoders together with their original retail boxes both of which have large "Freeview" logos on them. One is a Top Up TV PVR and the other is for a subscription service from Sky that was to be called Picnic that was cancelled before launch although a fairly large batch of STBs were manufactured (featuring a card slot and Videoguard decoder) and later sold off cheap by Curries. Both allow full reception of Freeview channels and services available at the time of their launch and of their relevant subscription services.DVB-T (or DVB=T2 for HD) is the name of the standard, DTT simply is shorthand for Digital Terrestrial Television.
Freeview is in a sense a brand more than a set of technical specs. While they licence the Freeview logo to a box that have certain features that does not mean the non logo'd box cannot receive the DVB-T signals and be a digital TV receiver just that it does not have the freeview logo. As long as the box is DVB-T compliant it will receive UK TV.
The boxes sold will of course vary. Many of the cheap ones are actually called Digital set Top boxes and carry the DVB-T logo and do not mention the word Freeview at all. Why, well in the sub £30 market licencing the Freeview logo and putting in the bits like the EPG costs money, and yes its built to a cost.
The makers will put a card slot in in the cheapest way possible if they have to, and it will be to DVB-T standards. The better makers will have them certified to get the Freeview logo too.
So presumably in carrying the Freeview logo both were licenced to do so by Freeview. So the technology and the will to use encryption does exist in Freeview.0 -
Whatever the historic detail and the name(s) on the boxes, the fact remains that there are millions of existing boxes & TVs without card slots.
That presents issues for a future rollout of subscription BBC - technical, practical, political and financial.
That's all I'm really saying. I'm not clear why it seems to be a controversial point.0 -
Cornucopia wrote: »the fact remains that there are millions of existing boxes & TVs without card slots.
That presents issues for a future rollout of subscription BBC - technical, practical, political and financial.
That's all I'm really saying. I'm not clear why it seems to be a controversial point.
Because you brought it up.
But there is no way on Gods earth the BBC will go subscription and/or any combination of. And I think you already know that.0
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