Theatening call from landolord

tarden

Hello all,
haven't posted much on MSE but have been an ardent fan (and lurker!) for a good while, and have seen much good advice.

I would appreciate some advice on our legal position re: me and my partner and our flat.
Situation is quite simple:
We are in a rented flat on an Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreement - expiry: Friday!
Landlady contacted me via email about 2 months before the tenancy expired to say she wanted to sell the flat and therefore did not want to renew (we had been there 2 years and renewed once - no probs with the flat , kept clean etc)

We only started looking a month before but have found it is a bear pit out there! (2 years ago we found somewhere within 2 weeks, not now, not in North London)
You see flats and phone up the agent only to be told "oh, that one's gone, I've got this one for £280 per week"
Anyway, we have hopefully sorted out a flat for ourselves today...
BUT it is two weeks after the date of the end of the tenancy agreement.

I got a call from Landladies' partner along the lines of:
"We have got people moving in and you MUST move out, I don't care if you are made homeless, it's not my problem, we have got people moving in to look after the flat while we sell it" -i.e people moving in on Saturday.

They've got keys, I don't want to find us locked out of our own flat

In Summary:

• have been in flat for 2 years and had good relations with landlady
• have not found anywhere to move to before end of tenancy - found one now, subject to refs, so need to stay 2 more weeks after end of tenancy, otherwise homeless!
• LLs partner has phoned me up in a threatening way
• She's holding 6 weeks rent deposit - big sum!
• I don't want to end this in any bad way, I like the LL, but her partner trying to monster me got my goat...
• Worried about getting back deposit (minus weeks still there)
• Worried about people coming round to try and throw us out!

So, what should I do? I'm quite a big bloke but really don't relish the idea of scrapping with this bloke on friday night.
Should I stay in on Friday with a baseball bat?
Change the locks? - don't want to do this, inflammatory
Or should I tell him that in law I have the legal right to stay there (for 28 days) until I move out?
sorry about the rambling
late at night, can't sleep....

Anyone know if we can stay here for 2 weeks (as long as we pay the rent for it) past our 'expiry' date?
If anyone has bothered to read through this nonsense then - Thank you,
and if you have any suggestions then they will be welcome too!
Thanks in advance
tarden

rhig

Hi Tarden, sorry to hear about your situation, with an assured surehold tenancy your landlord cannot legally evict you even after the end of the tenancy till they have obtained an accelerated possession order which will not be enforceable for at least 2 weeks, you are given 2 weeks to defend, if you do not the order is usually made enforceable immediately. In your case you would not need to defend as you only need 2 weeks however you would likely have to pay the landlords costs. If you say you need 2 weeks it’s likely your current landlord won’t want the hassle.

If possible record any communications with the landlord in case of harassment on their part, they could be in a lot of trouble for that and it will be useful if a threat of obtaining a possession order is made. You are allowed to change the locks providing you do not damage those of the landlord and put the old ones back on when you leave. If you are able to change the barrel of the lock this might not be noticeable to the landlord unless they attempt to enter with their keys. If anyone attempts to enter the property call the police, if the landlord claims to have a court order do not let them in, only the court bailiffs are allowed to evict you.

As for your deposit you will be able to get it back through small claims court but you can’t expect to get the money immediately, you will have to pay court fees but the landlord will have to cover those when they pay.


Check out the CAG landlord and tenants sub-forum as well as MSE, you may be able to get more information searching there, not that MSE isn’t good but there are a lot of people who know their stuff as well as some good sticky threads on tenants rights.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/landlords-tenants/

amcluesent

>subject to refs<

Which won't be so good if you become a squatter! LL has played fair by you, giving you 8 weeks notice, now you think it's OK to occupy their house and are willing to attack them with a baseball bat. Tenant from hell.

thelawnet

tarden wrote: »

Hello all,
haven't posted much on MSE but have been an ardent fan (and lurker!) for a good while, and have seen much good advice.

I would appreciate some advice on our legal position re: me and my partner and our flat.
Situation is quite simple:
We are in a rented flat on an Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreement - expiry: Friday!
Landlady contacted me via email about 2 months before the tenancy expired to say she wanted to sell the flat and therefore did not want to renew (we had been there 2 years and renewed once - no probs with the flat , kept clean etc)

This might not be valid notice. If it is not valid, they have no rights to start eviction proceedings or claim for breach of contract. Not renewing an Assured Shorthold Tenancy is not the same as legally asking for notice, which must be done according to Section 21 of the Housing Act. I personally doubt whether they have issued valid notice - even though the contract is at an end, without s21 notice you don't have to leave.

We only started looking a month before but have found it is a bear pit out there! (2 years ago we found somewhere within 2 weeks, not now, not in North London)
You see flats and phone up the agent only to be told "oh, that one's gone, I've got this one for £280 per week"
Anyway, we have hopefully sorted out a flat for ourselves today...
BUT it is two weeks after the date of the end of the tenancy agreement.

As above, even though the tenancy agreement is ended, unless you have received valid s21 notice, you don't have to leave.

I got a call from Landladies' partner along the lines of:
"We have got people moving in and you MUST move out, I don't care if you are made homeless, it's not my problem, we have got people moving in to look after the flat while we sell it" -i.e people moving in on Saturday.

Even if you have received valid s21 notice, this is illegal eviction, and quite seriously illegal. To actually evict they need to go to court if you are refusing to leave. That said, if they have issued valid notice, you might be liable for their costs in the people moving in if found in breach in court.

They've got keys, I don't want to find us locked out of our own flat

In Summary:

• have been in flat for 2 years and had good relations with landlady
• have not found anywhere to move to before end of tenancy - found one now, subject to refs, so need to stay 2 more weeks after end of tenancy, otherwise homeless!
• LLs partner has phoned me up in a threatening way
• She's holding 6 weeks rent deposit - big sum!
• I don't want to end this in any bad way, I like the LL, but her partner trying to monster me got my goat...
• Worried about getting back deposit (minus weeks still there)
• Worried about people coming round to try and throw us out!

So, what should I do? I'm quite a big bloke but really don't relish the idea of scrapping with this bloke on friday night.
Should I stay in on Friday with a baseball bat?
Change the locks? - don't want to do this, inflammatory
Or should I tell him that in law I have the legal right to stay there (for 28 days) until I move out?
sorry about the rambling
late at night, can't sleep....

Anyone know if we can stay here for 2 weeks (as long as we pay the rent for it) past our 'expiry' date?
If anyone has bothered to read through this nonsense then - Thank you,
and if you have any suggestions then they will be welcome too!
Thanks in advance
tarden

You might want to ask on the landlordzone forum.

Basically:

1. establish whether or not you have been given valid s21 notice. If not, inform the landlord as such that he is entirely in the wrong, and inform him that you will sue him for harrassment if he comes near you
2. if the notice *is* valid, then tell the landlord that you would like to stay for two more weeks and could he please by sympathetic. If he is not, if you wish to stay, legally you can until they have a court order. Tell him this, and warn him that you will be calling the police if anyone attempts to enter the house. If he does not agree, then just change the locks, and inform the police.

xycom1

Regardless of what the landlord is supposed to be doing (i.e. to comply with the law) - what is the situation for this poor tenant if he returns to the property and finds all his belongings on the street/dustbin and the locks have been changed? What is the law going to do about that?

nik_k

I agree - what is good in theory is not great in practice.

I wonder how many people have had the balls to do what is being suggested, and squat in a house, with the threat of having their possesions strewn across the street...not many I would imagine

barnaby-bear

xycom1 wrote: »

Regardless of what the landlord is supposed to be doing (i.e. to comply with the law) - what is the situation for this poor tenant if he returns to the property and finds all his belongings on the street/dustbin and the locks have been changed? What is the law going to do about that?

He will also be liable for landlords costs in starting eviction proceedings.

To be honest your best bet is to say to the landlord ok we'll go when you want but we want the deposit back in full and good reference (not returned by cheque - they can be cancelled) so we can afford to arrange temporary alternative. Then spend the deposit on a holiday for those two weeks or even stay in a hotel.
And who trusts a squatter if any deposit disputes...

Alan_M_2

I agree with Barnaby, the LL has been straight with you all the way down the line. Get out when your notice was given, get your belongings into storage and find somewhere else quickly.

olly300

It's not the LL's fault you didn't start looking for or find accommodation in time - they legally give you 2 months notice for a reason - and while they would have to go to court and eventually use bailiffs to get you out if you refuse to go, why cause all this hassle for yourself and them?

Go stay with friends', in a hotel or go on holiday. Many people have done it.

Oh and LL don't change locks any more if they want to remove a tenant cos this is so obviously illegal. They get their builder friends' to do some "urgent repairs" which unfortunately can't be completed for weeks and makes the place uninhabitable.

dannyboycey

You've had your notice, it's not the LL's problem if you failed to procure residency somwhere else within that period.

If I were the landlord, I would be pretty P'd off if I came back after that date to find you still there. I doubt I could restrain myself from physically kicking the door in of a tennant that did that, as the legal route takes so long.

Be aware though, that if you squat, you will get into all kinds of trouble when trying to rent/buy again.

thelawnet

barnaby-bear wrote: »

He will also be liable for landlords costs in starting eviction proceedings.

To be honest your best bet is to say to the landlord ok we'll go when you want but we want the deposit back in full and good reference (not returned by cheque - they can be cancelled) so we can afford to arrange temporary alternative. Then spend the deposit on a holiday for those two weeks or even stay in a hotel.
And who trusts a squatter if any deposit disputes...

Nonsense: the way he describes it, there are two chances the landlord has issued valid s21 notice, slim and none, and slim just left town.

Given that there is almost certainly no valid notice, he has no reason to leave, and certainly not to put all his possessions in storage for 2 weeks. Find out that first.

For instance, the OP is very vague about the amount of notice that was given - it must legally be two months, to end on the last day of the period. If it wasn't, why should he leave????