Financing care for elderly person with assets

margaretclare

Not sure what you mean by this, Jim. Who does the flat belong to? You say 'you' bought it under the right-tobuy scheme. So was she the council tenant? If so she could only have bought this for herself, and AFAIK someone buying their own council property can't sell it on to someone else for a specified period of years.

Is MIL likely to go into care, or is this just a 'what if' scenario? You had ill-health, but you're talking about her going into care, not you.

Do I understand that 'you' actually bought this flat on MIL's behalf because you had the price of it and she hadn't? In that case, I don't know who owns it now. Is MIL still living in it? Complicated!

Margaret

Errata

Elianne, that's the most useful and informative post I've seen about something that crops up again and again on MSE. I wish there was a sticky about this

I'd just like to add -

Council's usually put a charge on property so when it is sold they are re-imbursed for the funding contribution they've made, and expect the property to be sold before the sole owner's death if there is no prospect whatsoever of them returning to it.
Read inspection reports on the CSCI website, and pay particular attention to what improvements the inspectors ask the home to make. It's also useful to read as many previous reports on a home as are available, not just the most recent one. Sometimes an improvement is requested at more than one inspection before it's eventually carried out.
Social workers can be a great source of knowledge and support, but they can't say which are good homes and which not very good, and if they say they think a particular home might have no vacancies, be guided by them.
Visiting different homes can pay dividends if the visitor pays attention to smells and sounds - they shouldn't smell of anything at all and shouldn't have unacceptable levels of noise, whether caused by residents, staff or the tv's.
Ask how much time each week each worker is given by management to sit and talk to residents - this doesn't include time spent talking about care or medication needs - just an ordinary conversation.
Ask what qualifications staff have and which ones they are currently working towards, and what the staff turnover is. If it's rapid, there may be a problem, if it's quite static there may be a history of custom and practice which may not be current best practice. Ask if the home is part of a learning network, good homes will be.
Ask what the food spend per head per week is, can residents have their own tv's, is there a residents smoking area, quiet area, visitors room. Do staff all wear blue nylon overalls, or do they wear different ones in cheerful colours. Is there a residents group. Is there a relatives group. Is there a full time activities worker. How often are trips organised - once a month or once a year. Is the garden big enough and does it have enough seats for both residents and their visitors.
Listen carefully to the way the manager communicates, do they seem intellingent as well as caring.

The things people and their families are faced with when residential care is needed come at a particularly challenging emotional time, and some of them can be quite complex. In the light of experience, I've found that putting everything in writing makes a vast amount of difference. Hope this helps someone else.

Elianne

Good suggestions for what to look for when viewing a care home.

Jim - your situation sounds unfortunate as if you have purchased your MIL's flat using your money but the title deeds are in her name then social services will financial assess your MIL taking into account the value of her property. Legally the property belongs to her and I don't know if you would be able to put a case together to claim otherwise. If you sold the property and transferred the money to your account social services would probably view this as an attempt at fraud for the purposes of not paying for care. You may consider taking legal advice to see if you can protect your interest now before anything happens.

People need to plan for getting older and consider things like EPAs or LPAs (as per Oct 07) before they may not have the capacity to do this. Parents need to discuss with their children their views on going into care well before these events come up because when/if they do, as Errata said its an incredibly emotional, draining and exhausting time. Unfortunately there is so much pressure on public systems like health and social services that people do not get the time to comes to terms with events or as much support as they should.

Not every person requires care when they get older but its always good to have plan A and plan B and possibly plan C too!

Errata

Not every person requires care when they get older but its always good to have plan A and plan B and possibly plan C too

A very, very important point. Thankfully councils are starting to provide intensively supported housing, often flats in a block, which are staffed by sufficient and qualified staff 24/7 which give the occupiers the choice of preparing meals in their own kitchen or eating in the communal dining room.
People fare much better, and live much longer, in this kind of accommodation than they do in residential homes and becuase the per head cost to the council is less more accommodation can be provided.
Councils are also providing assistive technology in peoples own homes. Gizmos to remind them they've left the bath tap running, gas ring on, pressure pads so if someone doesn't move for a set time or return home in a set time an automatic alert to the support centre is made. This technology of course is in addition to the call alarm pendants and cords etc.
Can't wait for mine !
I've had my POA in place for some time now, as I don't have close family and wanted to appoint someone who was smart, knowledgeable and doesn't have their own agenda, which family do. Given my at times less than perfect driving it seemed the sensible thing to do.

woody_56

Hi i supplied the money for her to buy the flat,in her name,with the view that she can live rent free,and the property would be a long term invesment for me and her daughter[my wife and i],i suppose she could always sign the property over to us,but then on her death there will be the obvious tax implications.jim

Errata

Jim, if she gives the property to you now, or you inherit it in the future there will be tax implications.

If at some point in the future MIL needs residential care could the cost be met by her pension and high rate of attendance allowance and income from renting out her property?
The other option would be for her to sell it and use proceeds to fund. To do this she'll need to have the mental capacity to make informed choices. If she's ok now, why not talk to her about someone (you and your wife?) having her Power of Attorney? Even if she doesn't need residential care for, say, another 5/10 years the complexities of selling a house might be a bit tiring for her. HTH

seven-day-weekend

AFAIK, if it is in her name, it is her property, whoever provided the money - this is exactly the same scenario as my late MIL. However, she made a Deed of Gift over to my husband as soon as she could and then it was in his name and so became his property.

He did not have to sell it when she went into care. Although she had only recently signed it over to my husband, she was fit and healthy when she did it and there were no signs that she was going to have a massive stroke.

Errata

Excellent point 7DW, I'd forgotten distribution of assets is not always deliberate deprivation of assets.

soolin

Thank you Elianne, that was very helpful.

My relly is deteriorating quite quickly, he is now incontinent and with his mind slipping even more. He's also become a wanderer, he spent several hours waiting by the locked door one day last week as he thought he was going home and needed to get a bus, the staff say they can not make patients do anything as they will not manhandle them or 'force' tem in any way while they are calm, so instead just got him a chair and made sure he had cups of tea while he waited.

One of th eteam did say that I would struggle to find care now due to the incontinence, so I should wait it out and let him stay in the pyschiatric hospital as long as I can.

woody_56

Thanks to you all,most enlightning,thank you.jim