Financing care for elderly person with assets

Errata

It's incredibly difficult to obtain NHS funded care for people with dementia, but certainly worth a try.
A person cannot give someone else POA if they don't have mental capacity, so POA is best done before the stage is reached when someone can no longer manage their affairs.

soolin

This is proving an interesting thread as I was going to ask a similar question. As yet my relative has no diagnosis, but it seems likely that it is either dementia or alzheimers.

We did have a power of attorney drawn up before he became ill but the solicitors lost the papers so they were never signed and I suppose it is too late now that he is in a pyschiatric hospital. Every bit of info I get seems to conflict and add to that I feel bullied by the hospital who want him in an acute hospital rather than a pyschiatric one as he has medical conditions as well.

He owns his own house but it's in a dangerous state of repair (part of ceiling is held up by metal posts due to collapse) and I'm terrified that he will be sent home to a dangerous environment when he is incapable of looking after himself.

margaretclare

Errata wrote: »

It's incredibly difficult to obtain NHS funded care for people with dementia, but certainly worth a try.
A person cannot give someone else POA if they don't have mental capacity, so POA is best done before the stage is reached when someone can no longer manage their affairs.

Apparently it is going to become a little easier. A recent discussion on BBC Radio 4 'You and Yours' outlined this problem. It is now recognised that dementia is a physical thing i.e. there are recognisable changes in the brain, not just a 'mental illness'.

Have a look at this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/youandyours/items/01/2007_26_thu.shtml

HTH

Margaret

soolin

Thank you Margaret, I think I may have a battle on my hands. I have a case workers meeting tomorrow and am gathering all the info I can. As far as I can see it is me 'against' several medics, social services and all other interested parties and I am feeling very stressed. I don't care about the assets or the house, I just don't want someone dumped and unable to care for themselves and terrified into the bargain. I had no problems respecting their insistence on their right to independent living while they were just a bit forgetful, but when they are terrified for their life I have to do something to help them.

soolin

I should also say sorry for hijacking thread, but iI did a forum search before I posted and thought that the info I wanted was already available here, so didnt think I should start a new thread.

Errata

Soolin, best of luck tomorrow. I'm pretty sure the psychiatric unit can't discharge anyone to anywhere without a full care plan in place, which of course in your relly's case might simply be appropriate care to be delivered by an acute hospital.
Ask at the meeting what the psychiatric liaison is between the psych unit and the general hospital and who will advise the nursing staff on your relly's continuing psychiatric care needs if he's moved to a general hospital.
I'm sorry to say that the average nurse in a general hospital may have had little to no training in dementia care, and the treatment of people with dementia in general hospitals is not good (not my opinion, result of quite a lot of national research).
Your relly can't be discharged from the general hospital without a thorough assessment of needs which will cover living accommodation amongst other things.
If you think there are any specifics I can offer some help on, please post.
Best wishes

Errata

Dupliate post deleted to avoid confusion.

soolin

I had the meeting today and I have been given 4 weeks to sort it all out and be prepared to move relly out of the pyschiatric hospital. The house they lived in is not habitable so I suppose I am now looking for specialised residential care, but as yet I have no control of assets or property.

I've been told to go to a solicitor and ask for a CP3 form to be prepared which gives me power over assets and from there I can sell the property to fund, or partly fund a care home. However social services and the NHS pyschiatric hospital appear to be telling me different things and I'm in a muddle again, not least of which is the 4 week deadline to do something.

It's late now and I'm tired and a bit emotional but will take another look at the links posted tomorrow when I am fresh.

One thing I was told thought was that as the official diagnosis is now stroke induced vascular dementia it is considered a health problem rather than a psychiatric problem so relly is not entitled to the same protection as they would have had if the diagnosis had been alzheimers.

Elianne

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Hi Soolin,

sounds like you're having a rough time trying to make sense out of the whole system.

First of all the health service should make arrangements for the transfer of your relative from psychiatric hospital to general hospital. They may be able to offer some rehabilitation for a stroke that may improve functioning. If they are unable to offer any active medical treatment for his/her condition then I would query the need to move him/her and not plan for discharge from where he/she is.

Generally speaking the are two main forms of dementia; Alzheimers type and vascular dementia (can also be known as small vessels disease). Dementia is organic in origin i.e relates to damage to the brain and all forms of dementia are considered a psychiatric illness which is a health problem.

If a care home placement is being considered by health and social services then a Health Needs Assessment should be completed by hospital staff and a Community Care Assessment by social services. You should then get clear information as to what your relatives needs are. Also the Health Needs Assessment should be used by the Primary Care Trust to advise as to whether the NHS will contribute to the cost of a care home placement. Generally if an individual is assessed as requiring residential care then there would be no NHS contribution. If a person requires nursing care then the NHS should contribute an amount. IF an individual's dementia is particularly bad and they are difficult to manage, violent or aggressive for example, then they may meet the critieria for continuing care meaning that the NHS would pay for the whole of their nursing home placement. You should be able to obtain the criteria for continuing care from your relative's PCT.

Social services should offer you assistance with locating a suitable placement for your relative and normally offer what's called '12 weeks disregard'; this means that for 12 weeks they will ignore the value of an individual's home in assessing how much that individual should contribute to the cost of their care. You can also apply for 'deferred payment' this means social services will cover the cost of the care home placement until your relative dies and will then request the full payment accrued over the years from the estate of the deceased.

The CP3 form you mentioned is downloadable from the Public Guardian's office and is a medical certificate that should be completed by a doctor to say that an indiviual lacks the capacity to manage their finances. This is then sent to the Public Guardian's office. In the mean time you or somebody else would need to complete a (long) form applying to the Court of Protection for the appointment of a Receiver to manage you relatives finances (also downloadable from the Public Guardian's office). This can take several months to occur but care homes are familiar with this process and many are happy to wait for this to go through before receiving payment. Explain the situation and they will advise if they are willing to wait.

You can access inspection reports on Care homes through the C-SCI website (google C-sci) and social services should be able to send you a booklet listing care homes in your relatives county.

I hope that helps and isn't too much information!

woody_56

Hi my wife and i bought my Mother in Laws council flat under the right to buy,its in her name but willed to us should she pass on,we paid cash for the property some 16 years ago out of the money i recieved from early retirment through ill health,should she need to go into care[she is 83] how do we stand regarding selling the property thanks jim.