UKCPS back down!! PCN issued on a Business Park whilst football match was on

Coupon-mad

P.S. other posters feel free to add anything of course, this is a 'work in progress' of a POPLA version I keep adapting but it has worked for posters already.

Jailhouse_John

The Business Park road in question is a rat run between Gelderd Road and Leeds Ring Road. One entrance to it does have one of these blue and white UKCPS sigsn facing a driver as he enters the road - the other entrance does not - the first sign there is a few feet down the road and is turned 90 degrees, parallel with the entering driver. I have a photograph of this junction showing this lack of UKCPS driver-facing signage so should I include the photograph with my POPLA appeal?

For an old gifter like me all the information is a tad confusing at first so perhaps I should summarise my understanding of what my best course of action is:
1. Appeal in writing(now) to Land Owner as the Registered Keeper of a vehicle having been issued with a UKCPS PCN.
2. After receiving the first letter from UKCPS appeal directly to them again as Registered Keeper using one of the templates on the sticky. This to be done with 28 days of receiving their first letter.
3. When (if ) that is knocked back by UKCPS instigate the POPLA appeal procedure immediately having previously asked for a POPLA code in that first letter to them.

Sorry to be pain if all that is repeating what is the bleeding obvious to most on here

rew37

Yep - that just about sums it up. This really is nothing more than a scam and if you follow the advice, you are very unlikely to have to pay anything

Jailhouse_John

Jailhouse_John wrote: »

The Business Park road in question is a rat run between Gelderd Road and Leeds Ring Road. One entrance to it does have one of these blue and white UKCPS sigsn facing a driver as he enters the road - the other entrance does not - the first sign there is a few feet down the road and is turned 90 degrees, parallel with the entering driver. I have a photograph of this junction showing this lack of UKCPS driver-facing signage so should I include the photograph with my POPLA appeal?

For an old gifter like me all the information is a tad confusing at first so perhaps I should summarise my understanding of what my best course of action is:
1. Appeal in writing(now) to Land Owner as the Registered Keeper of a vehicle having been issued with a UKCPS PCN.
2. After receiving the first letter from UKCPS appeal directly to them again as Registered Keeper using one of the templates on the sticky. This to be done with 28 days of receiving their first letter.
3. When (if ) that is knocked back by UKCPS instigate the POPLA appeal procedure immediately having previously asked for a POPLA code in that first letter to them.

Sorry to be pain if all that is repeating what is the bleeding obvious to most on here

!!!! up on my part, I have just checked the photo and the blue and white sign does indeed face the driver rather than be parallel as I first thought although it is some 40' down the road from the junction joining the Business Park.

Coupon-mad

OK so just wait for the missive in the post from UKCPS next month, send the template 'first appeal' in the Newbies thread and later, for 'Round 2' adapt the above for POPLA.

Jailhouse_John

25 days since PCN stuck to windscreen and still no letter from UKCPS! How long do they have?
The PCN itself states that " the appeals must be received within 28 days of ticket issue" so I am assuming that they are waiting until the 28 days are up before they send their 'nasty'?
What are the consequences of me not Appealing to UKCPS until after their first letter?
The PCN does state that I may if my initial appeal is rejected "appeal to the independent appeals service (POPLA) details of which will be sent". However it is silent in mentioning POPLA(2012) - is this relevant?

ColliesCarer

Hang fire - shouldn't be long before the Notice to keeper arrives - following a windscreen ticket, it shouldn't be received any sooner than 29 days after the alleged event and no later than 56 days.
The NtK must then give the keeper the opportunity to appeal to the parking company.
I think you mean POFA 2012 - not POPLA 2012. The NtDriver doesn't need to mention it - the NtK does because that's the law governing getting keeper details and pursuing the keeper.

Only once they have rejected your registered keepers appeal will you get a POPLA code and be able to appeal to POPLA

Take a look at the flow chart (scroll down to most up to date version)

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4922055

Jailhouse_John

ColliesCarer wrote: »

Hang fire - shouldn't be long before the Notice to keeper arrives - following a windscreen ticket, it shouldn't be received any sooner than 29 days after the alleged event and no later than 56 days.
The NtK must then give the keeper the opportunity to appeal to the parking company.
I think you mean POFA 2012 - not POPLA 2012. The NtDriver doesn't need to mention it - the NtK does because that's the law governing getting keeper details and pursuing the keeper.

Only once they have rejected your registered keepers appeal will you get a POPLA code and be able to appeal to POPLA

Take a look at the flow chart (scroll down to most up to date version)

QUOTE]

That flow chart is brilliant -many thanks to those on here who provide all this stuff for us.:T

Jailhouse_John

Right - I received the NTK yesterday morning so I am now in a position to commence the Appeal.
I am still not allowed to post a link to the photo of the signage used but below is a draft of my appeal

The letter I received clearly states that "This notice relates to an unpaid contractual parking charge"

Dear UK CPS Ltd,

PCN number xxxxxxx
As the registered keeper of the vehicle quoted in the above PCN, I have recently received your parking invoice which I decline your invitation to pay. As a consequence I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to yourcompany is denied on the following basis:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to yourcompany or the landowner.
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract.
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass.

As a consequence of the above will you therefore please issue your standard cancellation letter or failing that a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:

- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.

- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require abreakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when thiscalculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please alsoexplain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof ofthe liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.

- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice byreturn and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee.Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requestedit, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law(as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the caseof Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

Take formal note:

(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as foundby Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46(10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.

(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver,alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach ofyour Code of Practice.

(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I mustinform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of£18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include thecost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidateddamages for distress arising from harassment.

By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when Iprevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.

Yours,

I have a couple of questions wrt to tactics that I would value some advice on:

a) Timing - should I wait or Appeal immediately

b) There are issues with where the vehicle was left in that it was on land designated as 'Future Development' - ie the land owner has not developed this part of the site as yet. So should I say this now or wait until the POPLA appeal takes place after this initial appeal is probably knocked back.

c) Should this Appeal letter specifically ask for a POPLA number?

d) The NTK specifically states that "this notice relates to an unpaid contractual parking charge" As a consequence should I amend the pro forma letter accordingly?

Many thanks in advance

JJ

Jailhouse_John

I am a patient bloke and do not like 'hoofing' normally but this site is now so busy that my last post has passed the great and the good by in a flash!!!

So I have reverted to hoof mode!