Roundabouts

fivetide

tykesi is right for me.

Roundabout near me which has three lanes entering of which two are signed for the same road (middle and right lane). The first exit has its own lane. The second (at 12 o'clock) is back onto the motorway you just came off. So the first exit for teh road is at about 1 o'clock from the starting position but is marked for middle lane. The same road also leaves the roundabout at 3 o'clock which is what the right lane is for. Still you get people in the right lane trying to leave at the 1 o'clock exit because they think it is a right turn and not (as above) straight on.

don9999

I 'think' everyone agrees that car 2 was wrong.

If you're taking the first exit, then you must approach in the left lane.
(But......I know of many roundabouts, where there are signs leading up saying that 'both' lanes may turn left. Personally I think this is dangerous, but there it is. And in THIS case the OP has said there were no other signs. So....to turn left you must approach in the left lane).

The difficulty comes with what car 1 should do.
And the difficulty comes about because there are few roundabouts that have clear 'straight on' or 'right' exits from a roundabout.
If there is....then the highway code should be followed - essentially, approach in left lane for turning left or straight ahead, approach in right lane if going right.

But what if the turning was 'between' straight ahead and to the right?
Some people might assume this is effectively 'straight-on' and expect a driver to approach in the left lane; and some people will assume this is effectively 'right' and expect a driver to approach in the right lane.

Personally, I don't think there can be a correct answer.
The highway code does not give a definitive answer to what to do with a turning that is 'between' straight on or right.
Or a turning that is 'closer to straight on than right' or even 'closer to right than straight on'.

Personally, I treat roundabouts like this:

• If taking first turn, always approach in left lane
• If exit is clearly straight on (or before straight on), approach in left lane
• If exit is clearly right, or beyond right, then approach in right lane
• If exit is between straight-on and right, then 'choose a lane but be very weary of what other drivers are doing'

Of course, the over-riding thought is ALWAYS to be weary of other drivers.
'Other' drivers often interpret the road different to me (I'm not saying who is definitively right or wrong). Everyone has seen drivers approaching in the right lane and turning left right in front of you as you try to go straight. Or drivers that approach in the left lane and turn right, right in front of you as you try to exit the roundabout.


Whilst we ALL need to continually refresh our roadcraft, we should also always be weary of what other drivers are doing and whether someone is going to do something silly right next to you......

jase1

Second exit is >12 o'clock... I would be using lane 2 for this exit.

Many people would use the left lane... this is a borderline case (as second exit is only slightly more than 12 o'clock), and lane 1 isn't necessarily wrong, but I would view it as inadvisable, especially given that the first exit is dual-lane.

don9999

I mainly agree with you jase1.

Borderline though. Typically I agree and use lane 2 for exits >12 o'clock.

One thing to point out though, is making reference to the number of lanes in an exit.
Many people even use this as a 'reason' for using the right lane for specific exits.
However.......we should assume that a driver wouldn't know how many lanes there are on a particular exit.
We (and they) should be making a decision based only on what signage is available (and the sign when approaching the roundabout should indicate reasonably accurately, what angle your exit is at).

jase1

Agreed; I was only making the point about the number of lanes in reference to maintaining a defensive driving style; the fact that the first exit has two lanes means that there is a much greater chance of someone using lane 2 to turn left than if that exit was single lane.

That doesn't make it right that someone should use lane 2, it's just something that would need to be taken into account when deciding to use lane 2 yourself for second exit.

Of course, if I didn't know the roundabout I'd be using lane 2 by default (unless turning left), as this would allow me to lap the roundabout if I needed to, rather than cutting people up at the last second.

da_rule

jase1 wrote: »

Second exit is >12 o'clock... I would be using lane 2 for this exit.

Many people would use the left lane... this is a borderline case (as second exit is only slightly more than 12 o'clock), and lane 1 isn't necessarily wrong, but I would view it as inadvisable, especially given that the first exit is dual-lane.

This is what I was always taught when driving. If the exit you want is over 180 degrees (past 12 o'clock) from where your car is pointing then it should be treated as a right hand exit (unless signed otherwise. As exit C appears to also be 2 lanes, car 2 could have reasonable expected car 1 to be going off at that exit and therefore be attempting a cheeky (and wrong) overtake.

I would add my vote to both being in the wrong lane.

Ultrasonic

In the absence of guidance from road signs or markings I would stay in lane 1 to leave at exit D, but I agree with others that it is a bit of a grey area whether to be in lane 1 or 2.

A car in lane 2 taking exit C is clearly in the wrong though.

jimjames

spacey2012 wrote: »

Attempting to make a left turn from the right hand lane without indicating is becoming the normal these days.

Yes indeed. When I last had an accident it was caused by someone doing exactly that. I was car 1 and car 2 caused the accident driving across my path.

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

You have to consider the number of exits, I would say if there were three roads off the roundabout then your road positioning is going to be affected by the exit 2 location, but with 4, or more, you really have to think in terms of number of exits. Middle lane can never be correct for a first exit in the absence of specific lane markings.

I'll give a simple example, into Solihull, into the Warwick Road there is a dual carriageway which ends on a roundabout, unmarked lanes. To the left is a minor residential road, though it is built to A road standards as it used to be the old Birmingham to London route so it doesn't look minor, though I'd guess there might be road sign clues. The other exit is to the right to town centre, 270 degrees, this is single carriageway, but with two exit lanes and a merge after 20 metres. The roundabout is lane marked with two lanes.

The only way two lanes can be filled is by both left and right lanes turning right. Left lane legitimately turns right on the second exit principle, right lane physically couldn't turn left without encroaching on another car. If people applied the looks right, must be right lane rule, then the capacity of the roundabout would be significantly reduced.

So, familiarity with a junction might lead to specific issues based on local convention learnt over time, but without any other signage you have to consider the driver unfamiliar with the road, lane one must always be considered to be a suitable lane for both first and second exits and any driver who relies on a driver turning left is being foolish.

In the OP example, it would not be surprising to see that the signs for the roundabout did not show the angle.

scaredofdebt

Assuming D is only 1 lane (which it looks like) then the left hand lane approaching is for first or second exits and the right lane is for exit 3 only (or going right around etc).

If D had 2 lanes then you could use either.