Diesel Particulate Filter fault, who is responsible?

jase1

Walcott wrote: »

The 5k miles could be a small number of long distance journeys.

Well yes, of course, but on balance how many of the leases taken out on these terms will be that kind of usage pattern?

If you're using a car for such low mileage, and the journeys are short, it is perhaps not the most sensible choice of leased car given the OP's experience.

gilbert_and_sullivan

Diesel may be the default choice at the moment, decision aided by free or extremely cheap VED bandings but i suspect when barge pole economies kick in a few years down the line as this problem becomes common knowledge then sales will falter.

Lease companies won't be buying them new if they can't give them away at 3 years old, will be interesting to see how this develops.

Rock and hard place for buyers, they have to do their own research, its never been in the interests of the sales bod to tell the truth, just like politicians.

tberry6686

I'm not picking on your viewpoint, but it seems to me that things are heading in the direction of conceptual absurdity.

The cars are designed to be used on all journeys though, it's just that the EU has made DPF's a legal requirement and so has caused this issue.
Using a diesel for short trips was no problem until DPF's were added.

photome

tberry6686 wrote: »

The cars are designed to be used on all journeys though, it's just that the EU has made DPF's a legal requirement and so has caused this issue.
Using a diesel for short trips was no problem until DPF's were added.

I think the fact diesels are not suitable for low mileage short trips should be pointed out at point of sale.

You see so many diesels being driven by the elderly for their weekly shop and little else, its a crazy situation that cars are not fit for purpose.

Myself, we have 2 cars one a diesel that does 30000 plus a year and one a petrol that does 5000 a year because it makes sens but not everyone knows that and clearly the OP didnt

tberry6686

But diesel cars are fit for purpose. It is the fitting of DPF's that make them a problem for short journeys. As all manufacturers of diesel cars must fit these by law then I would argue that it is the law that is not fit for purpose in this case. Revoke the legal requirement to fit them and no manufacturer would have them.

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

tberry6686 wrote: »

But diesel cars are fit for purpose. It is the fitting of DPF's that make them a problem for short journeys. As all manufacturers of diesel cars must fit these by law then I would argue that it is the law that is not fit for purpose in this case. Revoke the legal requirement to fit them and no manufacturer would have them.

No, it is the engineering that is not fit for purpose not the legislation. I am sure that it is difficult to engineer one of these doobries but designing the device so it does not cope with certain normal uses of a car is a fault of the engineers. Clearly some manufacturers have been able to design these devices so they work adequately. I suspect the difference may be in which engines were designed with them in mind vs. retrofitting them.

Basically, they are a soot filter based on the principle that engines produce soot in some modes of use but can then destroy the soot in other modes of use. It could be possible to design one with a replaceable cartridge, or use the engine management system to detect problem scenarios or design them in such a way that any excess soot build up could be removed by a simple low cost process.

These are design issues that manufacturers can resolve, but they've probably blown their design budgets so they don't want to solve them. Over time the filters will improve, basically b they need to be forced to give a warranty with them which will focus them on making them better rather than spending their effort fobbing off disgruntled customers.

tberry6686

As far as I am aware every manufacturer has this issue. It's not a design fault in the engines, it is a fault of the EU rushing through legislation before the technology is ready

Johnmcl7

tberry6686 wrote: »

As far as I am aware every manufacturer has this issue. It's not a design fault in the engines, it is a fault of the EU rushing through legislation before the technology is ready

Agreed, although the newer Euro V diesels which have been designed with the DPF (rather than just bolted on as was mostly the case for Euro IV diesels) I'm not aware of any current DPF designs which don't have trouble if the car is being frequently used for short journeys even though the newer diesel engines are meant to be able to passively regenerate at lower revs.

John

deanos

apparently the new euro egs cars are also going to have Ad Blue like lorries, more things to go wrong, the new Insignia is going to have it from what i have read when the new engines are introduced next year

Hintza

scenaria wrote: »

Now Mini is saying the leasing company should never sold this car for 7000 miles per year

If this is what Mini are saying it should be in BIG BOLD letters stuck somewhere on the car or at worst in the handbook if they have neither then they need to stick by their warranty.

And I bet you Lex gets them directly from Mini too and it is not beyond the realms of possibility that Lex might be the middleman and Mini is actually leasing the cars out.