Summoned to court by Northern Rail!!!

zerog

spacey2012 wrote: »

Send them the £5.60 as soon as possible and make a note you regard the £100 as a unlawful penalty charge.

Not helpful, this will not absolve the OP from needing to attend court (or plead guilty without attending court)

Northern also offers out of court settlements for certain first-time offences and these are also lawful

pompeyrich

jackieblack wrote: »

I'm sure that they've heard every excuse in the book about how/why someone wasn't able to buy a ticket. It doesn't mean none of those excuses are true, but it doesn't really matter because they are just excuses and nothing more. It might seem harsh but the bottom line is that conditions of carriage state that you MUST buy a ticket from the ticket office if you get on at a manned station.

If the ticket office at our local station is open but unmanned I just find a member of staff and state that I need to buy a ticket. They either return to the ticket office or send someone else within a minute or two.
It's really not that difficult.

I'm no lawyer and what you state is not unreasonable, however on the Northern Rail website link in Blackbeards post, the decision to prosecute is made IF:

5(3) if any person -

a) travels or attempts to travel on a railway without having previously paid his fare

and with intent to avoid payment thereof;

If the OPs account is correct, then surely approaching a member of staff on arrival and joining a queue to buy a ticket shows there was no intent to avoid paying the fare and therefore doesn't satisfy their own reasons to prosecute.

DomRavioli

pompeyrich wrote: »

I'm no lawyer and what you state is not unreasonable, however on the Northern Rail website link in Blackbeards post, the decision to prosecute is made IF:

5(3) if any person -

a) travels or attempts to travel on a railway without having previously paid his fare

and with intent to avoid payment thereof;

If the OPs account is correct, then surely approaching a member of staff on arrival and joining a queue to buy a ticket shows there was no intent to avoid paying the fare and therefore doesn't satisfy their own reasons to prosecute.

The OP stated that she didn't wait as would have missed the train and assumed they could get one on board a rush hour train into Manchester. Naive? Yes. Point A would become the prosecution point, and the OP would have had previous notices of this - they don't take you to court as a first option for a first offence. Burying their head in the sand was a bad move.

pompeyrich

DomRavioli wrote: »

The OP stated that she didn't wait as would have missed the train and assumed they could get one on board a rush hour train into Manchester. Naive? Yes. Point A would become the prosecution point, and the OP would have had previous notices of this - they don't take you to court as a first option for a first offence. Burying their head in the sand was a bad move.

How does asking to buy a ticket at ones destination and on finding out join a queue to buy said ticket indicate an intention to avoid payment?

Point a clearly states no ticket AND no intent to buy one, not OR but AND.

DomRavioli

Leaving the ticket office because your train turned up, and didn't leave enough time to purchase said ticket would prove that - next time READ THE OP before inserting foot in mouth. OP just didn't understand that if you don't buy a ticket, you can get fined. I'd take a punt at saying the station has CCTV, and they didn't leave sufficient time to purchase before boarding.

The conditions of carriage state at all manned stations you must buy a ticket BEFORE boarding; the ticket barriers at Manchester Victoria are for the stations which don't have ticket machines or ticket offices (there's quite a few that don't - mine included), not for people too stupid to not purchase before boarding.

DomRavioli

pompeyrich wrote: »

How does asking to buy a ticket at ones destination and on finding out join a queue to buy said ticket indicate an intention to avoid payment?

Point a clearly states no ticket AND no intent to buy one, not OR but AND.

See above. Its really not that difficult to fathom; you can't buy a ticket at destination if from a manned station. That would indicate an intention to avoid payment by breaching the conditions of carriage.

OP had neither a ticket nor an inclination to purchase one at the available purchasing point which would be the ticket office BEFORE boarding.

wealdroam

The OP followed my advice in post #3, and has had a much more tolerant response 'over there'.

DomRavioli, I invite you to join that thread.

daveyjp

I have complained to Northern Rail twice since November 2013 about their ongoing failure to provide adequate facilities for passengers to purchase tickets. Guards not selling on quiet trains, lack of staff at ticket offices, lack of machines on platforms to enable passengers to buy before exiting stations with barriers.

Despite their 20 day target to respond, I am yet to receive a reply to either.

If they are able to take me to Court for not having a ticket I should have a reasonable expectation to be able to purchase a ticket without a wait in a queue for a longer time than the journey took.

rustybucket

DomRavioli wrote: »

Leaving the ticket office because your train turned up, and didn't leave enough time to purchase said ticket would prove that - next time READ THE OP before inserting foot in mouth. OP just didn't understand that if you don't buy a ticket, you can get fined. I'd take a punt at saying the station has CCTV, and they didn't leave sufficient time to purchase before boarding.

The conditions of carriage state at all manned stations you must buy a ticket BEFORE boarding; the ticket barriers at Manchester Victoria are for the stations which don't have ticket machines or ticket offices (there's quite a few that don't - mine included), not for people too stupid to not purchase before boarding.

CCTV from October? Most unlikely. There is no intention to avoid payment, I suggest she goes not guilty as it is down to the prosecution to provide the evidence to prove that intent was in the mind of the OP.

ThumbRemote

DomRavioli wrote: »

OP had neither a ticket nor an inclination to purchase one at the available purchasing point which would be the ticket office BEFORE boarding.

Please spell out how OP was meant to buy a ticket from an empty ticket office?