Adult minimum wage to rise by 19p per hour

gadgetmind

furthest wrote: »

Why should taxpayers subsidise businesses that fail to pay an adequate wage to their employees.

I agree that no-one working full time should require any state benefits or tax credits, but the benefits system is so complex and generous that I really wouldn't know where we'd need to set that wage level.

However, here is a word of warning. The robots are coming! No, seriously, we're going to see unskilled work being inexorably taken by machines over the next few decades. This is by no means a new phenomena, but I think the rate of change is accelerating (yes, jerk, second derivative of velocity!) beyond what most people are aware of, and it's going to totally change society.

I really do have mixed views on whether the change will be for the good or the bad. Best case, people upskill fast enough to keep ahead, worst case I walk into work one day and there's a robot in my office shouting at my staff, who are also robots.

amiehall

falko89 wrote: »

Please fill us in on how you did this because for me it is a struggle. We have a car to keep, rent to pay, food to put on the table, by the time we do this we are broke, Holidays? I've never left the UK and even now I work my annual leave as can't afford to go anywhere or do anything so no point sitting around the house bored, the money saved comes in handy for Xmas, in fact we wouldn't be able to do Xmas without it.

I don't have a partner or any children which it seems like you do and I definitely don't spend enough at Christmas to need to save up specifically for it!

Honestly, I just lived a normal life. I was in a houseshare with friends with no extra money from parents/housing benefit/tax credits.

I really don't think £250 a week is that little to live on. After all my rent, food, bills, I'd still have over £100 a week just for pocket money.

I just live on student loans/grants now and don't bring in as much as I had on a low wage and I now have my own flat...

mattcanary

gadgetmind wrote: »

I agree that no-one working full time should require any state benefits or tax credits, but the benefits system is so complex and generous that I really wouldn't know where we'd need to set that wage level.

However, here is a word of warning. The robots are coming! No, seriously, we're going to see unskilled work being inexorably taken by machines over the next few decades. This is by no means a new phenomena, but I think the rate of change is accelerating (yes, jerk, second derivative of velocity!) beyond what most people are aware of, and it's going to totally change society.

I really do have mixed views on whether the change will be for the good or the bad. Best case, people upskill fast enough to keep ahead, worst case I walk into work one day and there's a robot in my office shouting at my staff, who are also robots.

Yeah, Barclays Bank are certainly encouraging people to use their machines to do everything, rather than go to a cashier. Members of staff pounce on you as soon as you walk into their branch, getting you to do this.
I don;t want always want to be served by a faceless machine. That's why I go to join the queue.

I put in a complaint about this in the branch after being served. Probably pointless, but I wanted to put my point across. If others do the same, then maybe Barclays will change their point of view. Probably won;t, but you never know.

This type of thing is only going to accelerate in all likelihood, just as you say.
Moving towards a 1984 style society mixed in with the War of the Worlds. I do not look forward to the prospect of machines taking over from humans at all.
But humans have always been a destructive race. Will probably en up by rendering themselves as obsolete and become extinct. Just like dinosaurs did millions of years ago.

trollopscarletwoman

mrmadcat wrote: »

your council tax will be paid for you as you will get council tax benefit. also you could sell your house if you can't afford the mortgage...housing benefit will pay for a house/flat for you.

without any children-minimum wage is perfectly livable on. i dont have experience of it with children though so can't comment really.

What council tax benefit-news to me.

I'll look into it and hopefully a lump sum will come my way.

Housing benefit will pay for a house for me-great idea buT I guess that deprivation of capital will take care of that, never mind means testing.

gadgetmind

mattcanary wrote: »

I don;t want always want to be served by a faceless machine. That's why I go to join the queue.

I do everything online and haven't been into a bank branch for years!

I do not look forward to the prospect of machines taking over from humans at all.

I'm not sure anyone does, but it's been happening since the steam engine and the spinning jenny. But this was just "mechanisation", followed by "computerisation", but this time it's different. Machines can drive a car more safely than we can, and fly planes, understand speech, climb ladders, operate machinery, and much more.

Of course they don't come cheap, so we're looking at niche roles to start with, but taxi drivers need to watch out, then it'll be bus drivers, shelf stackers, toilet cleaners, and onwards it will roll.

In parallel, we *have* been upping the skills base of people via better and longer schooling, but some baulk at the idea of being educated for free and don't acquire any valuable skills. How will society handle these people in future as their numbers swell?

Dunno!

mattcanary

gadgetmind wrote: »

I do everything online and haven't been into a bank branch for years!



I'm not sure anyone does, but it's been happening since the steam engine and the spinning jenny. But this was just "mechanisation", followed by "computerisation", but this time it's different. Machines can drive a car more safely than we can, and fly planes, understand speech, climb ladders, operate machinery, and much more.

Of course they don't come cheap, so we're looking at niche roles to start with, but taxi drivers need to watch out, then it'll be bus drivers, shelf stackers, toilet cleaners, and onwards it will roll.

In parallel, we *have* been upping the skills base of people via better and longer schooling, but some baulk at the idea of being educated for free and don't acquire any valuable skills. How will society handle these people in future as their numbers swell?

Dunno!

What happens if machines get driving a vehicle wrong though?

Couldn't that possibly create a rather serioius crash? Leading to massive litigation claims against the makers of the machines (or maybe the government for legalising them).

trollopscarletwoman

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

So no responsibility to your own case then? You have had 8 years to improve yourself educationally and move to a better paid job, and yet you bemoan someone paying you a legal and fair wage.

Don't let it be that in 8 years time you are in the same situation.

Legal but not fair wage paid by exploiters who run the cogs of what goes on.

stix62

mattcanary wrote: »

Yeah, Barclays Bank are certainly encouraging people to use their machines to do everything, rather than go to a cashier. Members of staff pounce on you as soon as you walk into their branch, getting you to do this.
I don;t want always want to be served by a faceless machine. That's why I go to join the queue.

I put in a complaint about this in the branch after being served. Probably pointless, but I wanted to put my point across. If others do the same, then maybe Barclays will change their point of view. Probably won;t, but you never know.

This type of thing is only going to accelerate in all likelihood, just as you say.
Moving towards a 1984 style society mixed in with the War of the Worlds. I do not look forward to the prospect of machines taking over from humans at all.
But humans have always been a destructive race. Will probably en up by rendering themselves as obsolete and become extinct. Just like dinosaurs did millions of years ago.

My local Asda has just put in these fancy new do everything Barclay's machines. The 'hole in the wall' cash machine has just gone 23rd century - not good for barclays employees, I would have thought.

sniggings

trollopscarletwoman wrote: »

That's the problem isn't it?

When on a slight differential nmw increases catch up and bosses don't have to restore the differential. Happens to my Mrs.

why is it a problem that someone on a lower wage than your wife will get more? why does that affect her?

BillJones

mattcanary wrote: »

It's just that I don;t consider life to be all about work.

As long as you don't then complain about your wages, or lifestyle then that's fine.

Unfortunately there are people who take your view, that work is not a big thing, and then get all upset when people who take it more seriously find it easier to get jobs, keep them, and to progress u the system and retire younger.