Threatened with Debt Collectors - Please Help

14wrence

Thanks guys - you are all amazing people. It was mainly the Debt Collectors I was worried about. I am more than happy to go to court if I have to.

I will write my letter to POPLA now, and post it here first.

14wrence

These threads are amazing. I should have gone through them first. Anyway one of the first things that stands out to me is on UMKOMAAS - amazing guide.

I noticed this.

"7. If it was an ANPR camera incident and the first correspondence you've received is the NtK, this needs to be received within 14 days of the incident; as above, dates very important, retain all paperwork."

I won't name the real dates for security, but lets say it was the 10th July.
on the NTK - they say "Date of PCN Issue" as 14th July.

However, I didn't get the NTK letter through the post, (and the letter is dated to prove it), a full 33 days until after the "event" on the 12th August.

What does this mean I can do then?? Shall I include this in my letter to POPLA?

4consumerrights

You will certainly include the relevant wording in your POPLA appeal as this is outside the time for keeper liability under POFA if there was no windscreen ticket initially - i.e first ticket was using ANPR .

However having seen several Parkdirect NtK letters recently - they do NOT contain all the relevant information in any case to pursue keeper liability - therefore only the driver can be pursued if known.

14wrence

4consumerrights wrote: »

You will certainly include the relevant wording in your POPLA appeal as this is outside the time for keeper liability under POFA if there was no windscreen ticket initially - i.e first ticket was using ANPR .

However having seen several Parkdirect NtK letters recently - they do NOT contain all the relevant information in any case to pursue keeper liability - therefore only the driver can be pursued if known.

Thanks - yes first charge was the photo through the post.

Coupon-mad

Hope you have found post #3 of the NEWBIES thread - 'How to win at POPLA'

14wrence

Hi All,

I was threatened with Debt Collectors last week, which I posted details of my PCN here.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4914297

Basically I stopped for 2 minutes as a friend got out of the car, and I didn't see the signage until they sent me the picture in the post.

If anybody would be so kind, please can you take a look at my POPLA appeal letter, and let me know what they think. Is there anything I can add. Or does it need re-wording?

Also if anyone can let me know how to insert an image, I can show the evidence..

A couple of points, to protect identity, I have changed the dates, and, to be on the safe side, I have said I stopped for 4 minutes, although it was more like 2.

And already a big thanks to Stroda, Coupon-Mad, 4consumerrights, hotbring and bod1467. I appreciate you taking the time to help.

Here goes.

PCN No: xxxxxx
POPLA Code: xxxxxxxxxx
Todays Date
Dear POPLA,
I am the registered keeper of vehicle reg xxx xxxx and I contend that I am not liable for the parking charge and the vehicle was not improperly parked. I wish to appeal against the notice on the following grounds.
1) 34 days until charge was received.
The driver was present in the area in question, on 9th March 2014. At the time I received no windscreen ticket. The PCN arrived by post to the registered keeper on the 12th April 2014 on a letter dated the 11th April 2014. This is far outside the 14 day notification time, for keeper liability under POFA.
2) Lack of BPA compliant signage
The driver entered the car park, the entrance to which had absolutely no signs to indicate that any restrictions applied, as required by the BPA Code of Practice paragraph 18.2 and Appendix B (see photograph attached). There were no Road markings to show where the private parking begins.
On inspection of the evidence sent by ParkDirectUK - the signage is extremely small, and view is restricted from the angle of the driver’s seat by several wheelie bins.
3) The charge is a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
The charge demanded far exceeds any loss to the landowner. If it exceeds any loss, it becomes a penalty.
In the appeal, ParkDirectUK did not address this issue, and has not explained whether their charge is relating to a breach of terms, or trespass, or contract (all of which are denied).
In Vehicle Control Services Limited (VCS) -v- Mr Ronald Ibbotson (Case Reference 1SE09849 May 2012) District Judge McIlwaine reminded the Operator of the need to mitigate any loss in circumstances where the employee is near enough to observe the driver.
POPLA Assessor Matthew Shaw has stated that the entirety of the parking charge must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss in order to be enforceable. For example, were no breach to have occurred, then the cost of parking enforcement, such as erecting signage, would still have been the same. The estimate must be based upon loss flowing from a breach of the parking terms, and in this instance there was no such loss.
The driver did not park at all in this area, and only stopped for approximately 4 minutes.
4) Lack of Proprietary Interest & non-compliant Contract with Landowner
ParkDirectUK lack of title or assigned interest in this land means they have no legal standing to allege trespass or loss, if that is the basis of their charge. Nor do they have the legal status at that site, which would give them any right to offer parking spaces on a contractual basis, as they are not the landowner and I have seen no evidence of a compliant contract with the landowner.
I put ParkDirectUK to strict proof that they have a relevant, contemporaneous contract with the landowner that entitles them to pursue these charges in the courts in their own name as creditor (a requirement of the BPA Code of Practice). Any breach of the BPA Code of Practice means that 'registered keeper liability' has not been established, since full compliance is a pre-requisite of POFA 2012.
5) The Notice to Keeper was not properly issued
The Notice to Keeper is not compliant with POFA 2012 on three counts.
- Firstly, it fails to state the period of parking: paragraph 8(2)(a)
- Secondly, it fails to identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment or notification to the creditor may be made: paragraph 8(2)(h)
- Thirdly, it fails to inform the keeper of the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available: paragraph 8(2)(g). This must include:
(a)any procedures offered by the creditor for dealing informally with representations by the keeper about the notice or any matter contained in it; and
(b)any arrangements under which disputes or complaints (however described) may be referred by the keeper to independent adjudication or arbitration.
POPLA Assessor Matthew Shaw has stated that the validity of a Notice to Keeper is fundamental to establishing liability for a parking charge. Where a Notice is to be relied upon to establish liability ... it must, as with any statutory provision, comply with the Act. As the Notice was not compliant with the Act, it was not properly issued.
7) Business Rates and VAT would apply if the charges are contractual agreements for the provision of a service
ParkDirectUK run a business in this car park for revenue and profit, and (although no signs were seen by the driver at all) I now notice that their signage appears to try to create a contractual agreement for 'services'. I put ParkDirectUK to strict proof that Business Rates are being paid to the Local Authority Valuation Office in respect of this 'contractual parking service' business, and that they are paying VAT to HM Revenue & Customs.

I respectfully ask the POPLA assessor to consider my points and photographic evidence and order that this charge be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

14wrence

If it helps, I can get a witness statement from my friend who I dropped off. He happens to be a reverend too, although not sure, that will help. But it shows he is honest.

14wrence

Just to mention, I have posted my POPLA appeal letter on a separate thread... Please let me know what you think if you have a mo...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4917651

bod1467

I have PM'd Crabman to have your other thread merged with this one. No need for a separate thread - it's better to keep history on the one place.

14wrence

bod1467 wrote: »

I have PM'd Crabman to have your other thread merged with this one. No need for a separate thread - it's better to keep history on the one place.

Thanks.. I am not that great with the etiquette i'm afraid..