water meter removal

sun01

Hi all,

I've just moved into a new property as a tenant (beginning of May) and am very annoyed to find it has a water meter installed.

After a few phonecalls to Thames Water it turns out that the water meter was installed on 30 August 2008. So I am still within the 12 month installation period.

However, even though the owner of the property has not changed within this period, Thames Water are insistent that I cannot get the meter removed.

They say that the name on the bill changed sometime in 2008 and that is when they installed the meter.

I know (because I have spoken to the previous tenants) that they lived in the property for approx 3 years on the same tenancy agreement. Because it was a shared house with 4 tenants, people may have moved in and out within that period (so names were removed and added to the tenancy agreement) but essentially it was the same tenancy agreement for the duration of their tenancy.

All I can imagine is that one day they decided (or had to) change the name on the Thames Water account, and Thames Water then swooped and put in the meter.

Thames Water tell me that it is a property that falls under 'selected metering'. ie Thames Water fitted it compulsorily, and there was no request from tenant or owner.

They say that even though the owner has not changed on the property for several years, because the name of the account holder has changed they are within their rights to fit a meter and that there is nothing we can do to get it removed.

They say the only person who could get it removed would be the account holder at the time the meter was installed.

Is this true? Can I really not get the owners to request that it is moved?

I know people have been posting on this forum that having a water meter would save you money, but in our case I know categorically that this is not the case.

We are using about 20 units of water a month at the moment, which according to Thames Water is quite low usage. Even so this works out at £40 a month, £480 per year. Thames Water have told me that without a meter we would be charged £370 per year all in. So with the meter we will be charged approx £100 per year more, and that's if we stick to our low water usage. It can only get worse if we use more.

To add some context - we live in quite an old property. Probably about 150 years old. We live in the Islington area of London - N1. We are in council tax band G, so quite an expensive one.

But we aren't rich! We are 4 people sharing a house as tenants, trying to keep the costs (and the bills) down by sharing. I feel pretty annoyed that we are being penalised like this.

Is there any way to get the water meter removed on the grounds of poverty? Can we appeal to anyone?

In theory I agree with water meters - they can only help with regard to climate change. However, water meters do not take any account of the horrendous leaks that Thames Water have all over London and are doing little to fix.

In May 2006 Thames Water were losing about 900 megalitres, MEGALITRES! per day in leaked water whilst awarding their fat cat bosses huge salaries. Apparently the leakage has improved slightly since, but it seems to me Thames Water customers are being forced to pay for this gross water leakage through the compulsory installation of water meters. So we are being penalised for the incompetence and water wastage of Thames Water itself.

I know from talking to the previous tenants that they had horrendous water bills in the 8 months after the water meter was installed. They realised that there was a leak between the house and the water meter, which the owners had to pay to have fixed. Even so the tenants had to pay for all the leaked water, and I think their water bill was about £400 for 3 months.

We just received our first water bill, and Thames Water tried to charge us £1,500 for 20 days water usage! Luckily there was no direct debit set up on the account, so no money has been paid, but what a joke! It seems that they were estimating our water meter reading based on the usage of the previous tenants, so that gives some indication of the hideous amounts the previous tenants were forced to pay. I think this is partly why they had to move out.

But what about all the millions of litres of water that is being leaked before the supply gets to your property? Who is paying for that? It seems that the general public and the planet are paying for it.

I know Thames Water get fined if they don't meet their leakage targets, but by installing water meters they are passing the cost onto the general public.

Sorry for the long post, but fat cats profiting while the general public pay for their environmental destruction really makes my blood boil!

Any advice on how to get rid of the damn thing would be greatly appreciated.

Rikki

Give them regular meter readings, watch how you use your water and find ways to cut back.

If you turn all the water off inside the property and the meter is still going round you have a leak and need to get it reported quickly. It's your job to check and read the meter regularly.

deanos

sun01 wrote: »

Any advice on how to get rid of the damn thing would be greatly appreciated.

You cant im affraid

Cardew

sun01 wrote: »

In theory I agree with water meters - they can only help with regard to climate change.
Any advice on how to get rid of the damn thing would be greatly appreciated.

You can't get it removed nor should you be able to!

Every Property built in the last 20 years had to have a meter fitted. If you have justification for not having a meter, so should everyone else who does't want one.

Your Council Tax band has nothing to do with unmetered charges. Those are based on the Rateable Value.

The only fair way to charge for water is to have everyone metered.

P.S.
Incidentally the water companies inherited a Victorian sewerage and water supply infrastructure.

savemoney

As others said you cant have it removed. I believe in the unlikely event once you ask for one fitted and it doesn't save you money you can go back to the old system but once you leave it reverts back to water meter

withabix

sun01 wrote: »

Sorry for the long post, but fat cats profiting while the general public pay for their environmental destruction really makes my blood boil!

...and yet for your own environmental destruction you want to be excused from paying for the volume of water that YOU use ?

4 people paying less than 33p each per day for water. Bargain!

Remind me - how much was that 750ml bottle of water you bought again?

savemoney

We are family of four and we pay less now for water in our semi than a smaller 2 bedroom terraced house we had just down the road

It does make you think having a water meter, but that isn't such a bad thing it doesn't stop me watering garden every now and then mainly use water butt or washing car once a week although I normally us a bucket and 3 lots of water from a watering can to swill down

sun01

Thanks for such prompt replies. I thought I wouldn't be able to get rid of it, but wanted to double check with all the knowledgeable persons hereabouts!

Withabix, as I said, in principle I don't have a problem with paying for my water on a meter, but the fact that the water companies seem to be shifting their fines for leakage onto the consumer doesn't seem fair.

It would be like having to pay an extra £100 on top of your council tax for a recycling collection from your home to cover the cost of your local council being fined by the government for land-filling all their waste/causing some other kind of pollution.

And some people being forced to pay this extra levy and not others.

And the council awarding themselves huge bonuses.

Incidentally I don't, nor would I ever, buy bottled water! (Although I understand the point you were trying to make.) I carry my trusty reusable and refillable aluminium water bottle with me where ever I go.

withabix

sun01 wrote: »

It would be like having to pay an extra £100 on top of your council tax for a recycling collection from your home to cover the cost of your local council being fined by the government for land-filling all their waste/causing some other kind of pollution.

That's exactly what happens NOW and exactly what WILL happen when all of the PFI waste schemes are delayed because of the way Gordon Brown and his cronies have ruined the economy. Landfill taxes are rising (Labour government again...) AND the alternatives that are being invested in for landfill diversion will be expensive too.

Council tax will go through the roof in 2014 because of this problem. Just wait and see. It won't be the fault of the (Conservative) government that will be in power then. It will be the fault of the current Labour idiots.

Water metering should be compulsory at change of bill payer at the very least. It's the only fair way to pay for water.

As for your complaint about leaks, as Cardew said, the water companies inherited Victorian infrastructure that had been ignored by the water authorities and governments for decades before privatisation. They can't replace ALL of the pipes at the same time. Well, they could, but everyone's water bills would be approx £5000 per year rather than £500.

Unfortunately, becuase we were probably the first country to have extensive mains water, we have the oldest infrastructure and therefore the worst. Same with gas mains, electricity cables, sewers, railway lines, roads, etc etc etc. Countries with faultless shiny assets haven't had them very long.

Cardew

withabix wrote: »

As for your complaint about leaks, as Cardew said, the water companies inherited Victorian infrastructure that had been ignored by the water authorities and governments for decades before privatisation. They can't replace ALL of the pipes at the same time. Well, they could, but everyone's water bills would be approx £5000 per year rather than £500.

Unfortunately, becuase we were probably the first country to have extensive mains water, we have the oldest infrastructure and therefore the worst. Same with gas mains, electricity cables, sewers, railway lines, roads, etc etc etc. Countries with faultless shiny assets haven't had them very long.

That is exactly the point I was making; and just to be even handed on the political stakes it was the Conservative idiots who sold off 'our' water industry('selling off the family silver')

Much as I am against privatiation of essential industries, at least ofwat(unlike ofgem/ofcom) has a good record of controlling the Water companies - setting targets, and ensuring that they are kept to, or fining them.

And some people being forced to pay this extra levy and not others.

Agreed.

However to make it a level playing field, we all should be metered. That was the intention of the Water Privatisation Act.

I have to say it does sound a little disingenuous to introduce environmental concerns as an argument why you should pay less.

Many people manage to use a lot less than 240 cubic metres per year (for 4 persons) If you could achieve this you would pay less and 'Save the Earth'

but the fact that the water companies seem to be shifting their fines for leakage onto the consumer doesn't seem fair.

That is very much not 'a fact'. Read the judgements*, ofwat are very specific that any fines will not be passed to the customer; and bearing in mind that ofwat have absolute control of the prices the companies charge, it is easily enforced.

*The Severn Trent case of fudging their leakage targets will make good reading!!