Dodgy Main Dealer

Horizon81

I tried to be smart? After you listed my brothers cousin's friend's dog's pet hamster took out insurance on this and that, justifying 'needless insurance' with a rather convenient example at every turn? Don't forget that this is mse, not the forum for motor traders/Currys' salesmen, and so my comments on needless insurance such as the examples you quoted are quite valid here.

"Inappropriate use of finance is where problems arise" is a very simplistic statement. Do you think anyone who takes out finance enters into it thinking that it is inappropriate for them and goes out of their way to default on the loan?

motorguy

Horizon81 wrote: »

I tried to be smart? After you listed my brothers cousin's friend's dog's pet hamster took out insurance on this and that, justifying 'needless insurance' with a rather convenient example at every turn? Don't forget that this is mse, not the forum for motor traders/Currys' salesmen, and so my comments on needless insurance such as the examples you quoted are quite valid here.

I gave you practical examples of circumstances were insurance has paid off. Thats the whole point of insurance -weigh up the risk and decide accordingly. I dont think any sane person would advocate all insurance as a "waste of money". There are times it makes sense.

I notice you havent given us ANY links to where Martin has EVER said dont take out GAP insurance, dont use finance, etc. I am very happy for you to stand corrected on this so please feel free to look.

For the record though the site is not about "not" spending money, it is about spending money cost effectively. If someone believes financing a car is right for them - and this may because they dont want to drive around in a £500 banger - then they can get the relevant advice from this site for finance rates, insurance, RTI insurance, GAP insurance, etc, etc, as well as getting general advice on this forum.

Where we see people coming on and saying, "i'm thinking of taking out finance of £5000 for a car at £400 a month, but i am on low income", wholeheartedly we will be advising that person to save up for a couple of months and buying a decent runabout.

Likewise if someone is on £50K per year, have £1200 a month expendible income and has found a great PCP deal on a BMW, then we'll clearly evaluate that for them and advise if its cost effective.

Horizon81 wrote: »

"Inappropriate use of finance is where problems arise" is a very simplistic statement. Do you think anyone who takes out finance enters into it thinking that it is inappropriate for them and goes out of their way to default on the loan?

I think a lot of individuals who later have problems either havent budgeted correctly in the first place OR havent prepared for the worst case scenario, should it occur.

And realistically, even IF an individual does get into trouble, its quite a lot of the time how they handle it thats the problem, not the problem itself - for example "ignoring" the problem, not making payments at all, not realising their rights under the Consumer Credit Act, and not taking evasive steps to prevent more debt than is necessary, should they have to dispose of the car.

I think anyone needs to ensure they are in the position that, if they were to be made redundant OR be long term sick, can support their current financial commitments for six months (six months being ample time to find *some* job), whether that be through savings, redundancy insurance or a combination of both.

Horizon81

Martin Lewis: Extended warranties are a known racket that has been going on for a long time. If a purchaser looks at the likelihood of product breakdown and the cost of repair and does a simple assessment to compare that to the cost of insurance, it is very rarely worth getting.

http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/

All your examples of fridges and printers fit into this category. To most people, gap insurance also fits in here. The chances of your newly purchased car being written off, vs you not being in such an accident are quite low.

motorguy

Horizon81 wrote: »

Martin Lewis: Extended warranties are a known racket that has been going on for a long time. If a purchaser looks at the likelihood of product breakdown and the cost of repair and does a simple assessment to compare that to the cost of insurance, it is very rarely worth getting.

http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/

All your examples of fridges and printers fit into this category. To most people, gap insurance also fits in here. The chances of your newly purchased car being written off, vs you not being in such an accident are quite low.

Yes. exactly - as Martin says "look at the likelihood of product breakdown and do a simple assessment"

£1200 Fridge = £500 repair costs. £100 for five years cover = no brainer.

£15 cover on a complex colour lazer printer for 3 years = £5 a year = no brainer.

You look at the cost and see if it stacks up. If it doesnt, you dont take it. Immediately writing it off as a bad idea would be plain silly.

Gap insurance is entirely different. It would be wholly wrong to group the two.

Horizon81

Whatever I write, you're going to have the last word I'm sure, so go on, indulge me.


I agree the examples you quote above are all no brainers. I wouldn't take them either! And you do like oversimplyifying things. There are of course many clauses to avoid the insurers having to pay out, hence the universal disdain on this board for 3rd party extended warranties. Say what you like, Gap insurance is just another insurance where you think yes, it would be nice to have it, but is it work the x hundred pounds versus the likelihood of it happenning? Balance of probabilities says no. But of course, you sell/sold the stuff so we'll never agree.

motorguy

Horizon81 wrote: »

Whatever I write, you're going to have the last word I'm sure, so go on, indulge me.

I'm not "indulging" you. Your responses are that banal that somebody has to make some attempt at giving reasoned responses

Horizon81 wrote: »

I agree the examples you quote above are all no brainers. I wouldn't take them either! And you do like oversimplyifying things.

Well, they were based on making a reasoned balanced judgement on the offers at hand. Thats all i am suggesting people do. You seem to be suggesting "dismiss out of hand immediately, without thinking through any possible consequences". I think that is wholly wrong.

Horizon81 wrote: »

There are of course many clauses to avoid the insurers having to pay out, hence the universal disdain on this board for 3rd party extended warranties.

I'm not seeing universal disdain? Non manufacturer third party car warranties are fairly crap, but the likes of insurance for a laser printer - they didnt even test it when i went back, just went and got me a brand new one. :beer:

Horizon81 wrote: »

Say what you like, Gap insurance is just another insurance where you think yes, it would be nice to have it, but is it work the x hundred pounds versus the likelihood of it happenning? Balance of probabilities says no.

And theres another contradiction - if someone takes out car finance then it makes sense to at very least look at GAP insurance - it could prevent some of the horror stories that you seem keen to bring up relative to people with finance problems??

GAP can cost less than £200. If someone has a 4 year finance agreement, then thats £50 a year, or less than £1 a week. Not much of an outlay to avoid a lot of misery should the worst happen and you write it off.

Horizon81 wrote: »

But of course, you sell/sold the stuff so we'll never agree.

Nope. Have never sold GAP or RTI insurance - dont "assume" just to try to make a point.

motorguy

Horizon81 wrote: »

Whatever I write, you're going to have the last word I'm sure, so go on, indulge me.


I agree the examples you quote above are all no brainers. I wouldn't take them either! And you do like oversimplyifying things. There are of course many clauses to avoid the insurers having to pay out, hence the universal disdain on this board for 3rd party extended warranties. Say what you like, Gap insurance is just another insurance where you think yes, it would be nice to have it, but is it work the x hundred pounds versus the likelihood of it happenning? Balance of probabilities says no. But of course, you sell/sold the stuff so we'll never agree.

Just as an example, my wife bought herself a new z4 a little while ago. When she went to pick it up she was offered the following:-

"Tyre Insurance" - I advised her to decline this. Pays out if the tyre is damaged but cost £500. Even though her tyres are £250 a corner, this didnt stack up for me. 2 years in and so far she wouldnt have benefitted from it.

"Scotchguard interior" - Declined - leather seats and just two seats anyway so the £200 seemed silly.

"Protective Polish £300" - Declined - you can buy the kit for a few pounds on ebay, but we get the car valeted regularly so gets a good polish then.

"Service Pack" - Accepted - £499 for 5 years servicing made sense. Services are circa £250 a pop and the car will need at least four in that time.

"GAP Insurance £400" - Declined - got equivalent GAP insurance for £200 online.

"Extended Warranty £600" - She'll be keeping the car four years so that means in year four there will be no warranty for that last year. Car has complex folding metal roof and lots of electronic gadgets to go wrong, so may well take that out at the end of year 3. Its an extension of the BMW warranty, so they pay out with little fuss.

Of note, you will see we reviewed each to see if (a) it was relevant and (b) if it offered VFM - a much better idea that dismissing without considering the value.

Prothet_of_Doom

So let me get this straight.

A company or people in that company are CRIMINALLY obtaining cash from Customer or Manufacturer, Knowingly commiting fraud ?

Okay to the OP, you have 3 choices. 1) Join a Union, Read up on Whistle Blowing Regulations, collect clear evidence, and with your unions advice, finally contact dealer principal or CEO of the Group with your evidence, at the same time as you share it with the Police, Trading Standards and the Car Manufacturer who is being screwed.
2) Leave before you see or hear anything else, shouting nah nah nah nah I'm not listening, so you don't hear anything else.
3) Become involved in the crime yourself.

Prothet_of_Doom

captainawsome wrote: »

If they find a fraudulent claim then they WILL take back all the money paid on them claims from the date of the last audit, that could be £100,000's potentially and has sent franchises bust in the past, forcing them to sell to competitors.

It shouldn't be necessary, but I wish that back street garages were policed in the same way. I've dealt with a few idiots and crocks, and people less than honest, who you can't trust, to do a good job, and not over charge you. I'm struggling to find any so called professional I actually do trust, apart from one tyres dealer, who is very good, but can't compete on price, so ultimately is doomed.:mad:

motorguy

Prothet_of_Doom wrote: »

It shouldn't be necessary, but I wish that back street garages were policed in the same way. I've dealt with a few idiots and crocks, and people less than honest, who you can't trust, to do a good job, and not over charge you. I'm struggling to find any so called professional I actually do trust, apart from one tyres dealer, who is very good, but can't compete on price, so ultimately is doomed.:mad:

Thats the problem though these days - so many people are price driven that those who offer good service but charge a bit extra get forced out of business.

Its why car dealers now try to flog you so much "extras" - because they are probably making more out of that than they are on the price they had to agree to get the sale done.