All repeat WCA medicals to be stopped

Anchoress

Well I've certainly read about it

Sorry I'm not allowed to post actual links as I'm a new user so will try posting the following

the guardian . com / politics / 2013 / nov / 23 /iain-duncan-smith-wrag-benefit-cuts

~Chameleon~

Anchoress wrote: »

Well I've certainly read about it

Sorry I'm not allowed to post actual links as I'm a new user so will try posting the following

the guardian . com / politics / 2013 / nov / 23 /iain-duncan-smith-wrag-benefit-cuts

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/23/iain-duncan-smith-wrag-benefit-cuts

Morglin

Thanks for that as I hadn't read it.

I worked for the DWP, in the 80's, and we were told then to try and get everyone we could onto sickness benefits, so that the official unemployment rate would go down.

Life then, in the minds of the Tories, has come full circle lol - and we now increase the unemployment figures by removing a lot from sickness benefits!

Still cannot see it, though.

Lin

Anchoress

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/23/iain-duncan-smith-wrag-benefit-cuts

Thanks Chameleon

Anchoress

Morglin wrote: »

Thanks for that as I hadn't read it.

I worked for the DWP, in the 80's, and we were told then to try and get everyone we could onto sickness benefits, so that the official unemployment rate would go down.

Life then, in the minds of the Tories, has come full circle lol - and we now increase the unemployment figures by removing a lot from sickness benefits!

Still cannot see it, though.

Lin

I can certainly see it. I think sja75 may have hit upon something - it would be the perfect opportunity to transfer WRAG claimants to JSA.

After all they're already doing it to some extent by making them attend WFI's and work related activity groups and it's sanctionable if claimants don't comply.

Also wasn't there talk some while back of the JSA being able to 'recommend' courses of treatment and medications (sorry can't find a link to that at the mo), no doubt that would also be sanctionable.

It would be an absolute dream in IDS's eyes to achieve this. A whole tier of wasters and shirkers weeded out and just the genuine sick and disabled left on ESA support.

Have you ever heard of The Nudge Unit? They are there to manoeuvre and manipulate the general public around to their way of thinking and doing things.

for info Google

Applying the insights of behavioural economics will mean better – and cheaper – government

and

Behavioural Insights Team at Gov.UK

I think they've been quite successful recently regarding welfare.
And I don't think a change of goverment will stop the reforms either. Don't forget it was Labour who started them.

(Just to make clear, I don't think most of the people on WRAG are either wasters or shirkers. I have a great deal of sympathy for what you have to go through at the Jobcentre while trying to get better)

annie_cardiff

Confused.com
I live in Wales, I received an appointment for a WCA today to be held on 20 March. I have not received the usual form to complete prior to medical. I have had 3 medicals in the past 3 yrs and am sure I filled out these before each of them. Is this normal and am I just unlucky to be called in before the suspension of repeat medicals ?????

Morglin

Anchoress wrote: »

I can certainly see it. I think sja75 may have hit upon something - it would be the perfect opportunity to transfer WRAG claimants to JSA.

After all they're already doing it to some extent by making them attend WFI's and work related activity groups and it's sanctionable if claimants don't comply.

Also wasn't there talk some while back of the JSA being able to 'recommend' courses of treatment and medications (sorry can't find a link to that at the mo), no doubt that would also be sanctionable.

It would be an absolute dream in IDS's eyes to achieve this. A whole tier of wasters and shirkers weeded out and just the genuine sick and disabled left on ESA support.

Have you ever heard of The Nudge Unit? They are there to manoeuvre and manipulate the general public around to their way of thinking and doing things.

for info Google

Applying the insights of behavioural economics will mean better – and cheaper – government

and

Behavioural Insights Team at Gov.UK

I think they've been quite successful recently regarding welfare.
And I don't think a change of goverment will stop the reforms either. Don't forget it was Labour who started them.

(Just to make clear, I don't think most of the people on WRAG are either wasters or shirkers. I have a great deal of sympathy for what you have to go through at the Jobcentre while trying to get better)

I don't think the Tories would have a 'moral' issue with abolishing WRAG and throwing people straight onto JSA, but I don't think it would be politically very helpful to them, simply because if you took approx. 750,000 people and added them to the unemployment register, overnight, it would be politically disastrous - no government wants high unemployment figures.

I can see, perhaps, the system devolving back to pre-2008, where you just had fit for work/not fit for work, as with Incapacity Benefit, but many people, on WRAG, are those recovering from serious illnesses, but considered fit to return to work, at some point, and I really don't think it would be that easy.

Labour did bring in ESA, and the Tories picked up the baton and ran with it, but it has, frankly, not turned out as politicians hoped. The Tories, themselves, had to bring in consultants as the original stance they took with ESA (punitive and harsh) failed miserably, and that is why the number 'passing' assessments is higher than ever.

At one point, there were government statements saying that JCP's would have the power to send drug addicts and alcoholics in WRAG, via the WFI's, to treatment programmes (or sanction them), but I don't know if that happens, and as so many rehab and treatment programmes have closed, due to funding cuts, I don't know if it's possible, at the moment. (To be honest, if this is happening, I don't think it's a bad idea anyway).

The sickness benefit bill is as high as ever, and the chaos, administration wise, means that no savings have been made, on any level. In fact, it's cost many millions to get nowhere very far at all, in regard to sickness benefit.

I'm not sure what they have been 'successful' in, apart from doing very well with the misleading headlines and propaganda!

'Success' means, in the normal sense of the word something that is efficient, fair and saves money - no benefit reform I can think of has achieved anything like this.

There's also the added problem, that whatever the government try to pretend, there simply are not enough living wage, full time, permanent jobs around - most of the 'new jobs' the government spout on about are temporary/zero contracts/placements etc., etc.,

But, it's all speculation, as no one knows who will be in power in 2015, and what they will do next.

Lin

Anchoress

Morglin wrote: »

I don't think the Tories would have a 'moral' issue with abolishing WRAG and throwing people straight onto JSA, but I don't think it would be politically very helpful to them, simply because if you took approx. 750,000 people and added them to the unemployment register, overnight, it would be politically disastrous - no government wants high unemployment figures.

I don't think unemployment figures would be a particular issue if people could see why there was a sudden jump. Also wouldn't it be helpful in terms of interest rates as the BofE had an unemployment benchmark figure of 7%, I think it was, before raising interest rates. It would help them in their ongoing deflation of the economy.

I can see, perhaps, the system devolving back to pre-2008, where you just had fit for work/not fit for work, as with Incapacity Benefit, but many people, on WRAG, are those recovering from serious illnesses, but considered fit to return to work, at some point, and I really don't think it would be that easy.

Those on WRAG are already under the auspices of the Jobcentre in terms of getting ready to return to work. I fully understand that many of the claimants have had serious illness, some in effect won't be jobseekers anyway, as they will have a job to return to. I haven't really thought through if they could cut their benefit as well, but I wouldn't put anything past this government for sure.

Labour did bring in ESA, and the Tories picked up the baton and ran with it, but it has, frankly, not turned out as politicians hoped. The Tories, themselves, had to bring in consultants as the original stance they took with ESA (punitive and harsh) failed miserably, and that is why the number 'passing' assessments is higher than ever.

Agreed

At one point, there were government statements saying that JCP's would have the power to send drug addicts and alcoholics in WRAG, via the WFI's, to treatment programmes (or sanction them), but I don't know if that happens, and as so many rehab and treatment programmes have closed, due to funding cuts, I don't know if it's possible, at the moment. (To be honest, if this is happening, I don't think it's a bad idea anyway).

To be honest I remember reading about it and didn't think it was specific to drug and alcohol users, but I might be entirely wrong about that.

The sickness benefit bill is as high as ever, and the chaos, administration wise, means that no savings have been made, on any level. In fact, it's cost many millions to get nowhere very far at all, in regard to sickness benefit.

Par for the course then.

I'm not sure what they have been 'successful' in, apart from doing very well with the misleading headlines and propaganda!

As I understand it, that's what they're there for, to change people's way of thinking and behaving.

'Success' means, in the normal sense of the word something that is efficient, fair and saves money - no benefit reform I can think of has achieved anything like this.

As I said, par for the course

There's also the added problem, that whatever the government try to pretend, there simply are not enough living wage, full time, permanent jobs around - most of the 'new jobs' the government spout on about are temporary/zero contracts/placements etc., etc.,

Agreed, the quality of many of the jobs around is apalling.

But, it's all speculation, as no one knows who will be in power in 2015, and what they will do next.

Indeed

Lin

And Lin, I do remember when they had a deliberate policy of putting people on sickness benefits with the demise of the mines and major industry. Personally speaking, I'm not sure we can truly blame the second and third generations of 'wasters and shirkers' who claim benefits as a way of life as that was they environment many of them we brought up in and they knew nothing else.

Yes, something needs to be done and I guess they are trying to do that but it's a very unsettling and worrying time for the sick and disabled who are caught up in it so please excuse any paranoia I may show

helloey

hello,

i just won my appeal this week and was placed into the WRAG - does this news potentially mean for me, that i will probably remain in the group without having to be re-assed for a considerable duration ?

or is that not right ?

thanks!

rogerblack

helloey wrote: »

does this news potentially mean for me, that i will probably remain in the group without having to be re-assed for a considerable duration ?

or is that not right ?

Probably not.
Ideally, with the load taken off decisionmakers and ATOS from reducing the existing load of reassessments, the backlogs that exist in several places in the system (including the tribunals service) will reduce to a 'normal' state - of several weeks.

My general impression of the rate at which this would happen - if the policy continues is somewhat under a year.

Hopefully, if this in fact did happen - the DMs can then take more time over decisions, make them right first time, and reduce the load both on the tribunals service, and on them preparing reports for the tribunals service.

But anyway - it is likely that if nothing else changes - with the current policy - in under a year, things will be at a point when they can reasonably consider restarting in a controlled manner assessments.