Letter from DFD

longtermplanner

Mr_F_Dorsetty wrote: »

I read somewhere not so long ago that 80%+ of all IVA's end in bankruptcy anyway. If that figure is even close to being true then that has to be a thought before entering the IVA road, surely?

That figure is total nonsense. The IVA statistics have been improving recently, but even at their worst, they were never worse than 1 in 3 failing. Now it's closer to 1 in 5 IIRC. If you google IVA statistics, the Insolvency Service publishes figures.

From what I can see, people who provide the IVA service make profits from your payments

of course they do. They are professionals who need to earn a living. Nothing wrong with that provided you are clear about the risks and aware of the alternatives when you choose an IVA.

longtermplanner

Louise84 wrote: »

My husband is in an IVA and has received one of these letters... after reading the articles on here (thank u) we decided not to agree to these terms. However he has received an email today saying thank you for agreeing to the changes and it will be proposed to your creditors at a meeting in April! The cheek! Has anyone else had one of these despite saying no?

That is bizarre. Reply with the word COMPLAINT in the email title. Then if they don't hurriedly back down, take this all the way through their complaints procedure : http://www.debtfreedirect.co.uk/complaints/

Depth_Charge

UpToMyNeckInIt wrote: »

DC,

Thanks for highlighting that article. Clearly then, there is a World of difference between DFD customers like 22cuddles (good luck by the way), who are in no danger having already attempted equity release, to those being asked to sign the new terms with equity release still to be attempted.

DFD are suspiciously quiet, but to put this into context, another IP quoted the following (relating generally to the equity release clause in the 2014 protocol) on another forum:

'My own view is that this is a storm in a teacup, as the ability to get a secured loan based on the other resttrictive criteria of the protocol - affordability, length of term etc will make it quite diffiult for anyone to get a secured loan.

We have recently done a back review in my portfolio of cases where equity release is relevant over the last 13 months, and on only one occasion would it have been possible.

As an IP in practice, I have to work with what I am given, and if the Insolvency Service choose to amend the rules then so be it. Personally I don't see protocol DMPs growing at the expense of IVAs - but it is vitally important that clients be given the full facts to enable them to make appropriate choices at the outset.'

...I don't know if that statement 'sets the record straight', but clearly a qualified, professional opinion to add into the mix nonetheless.

So are us IVA/homeowners maybe worrying unduly about the impact of secured loans etc?

For customers who are not homeowners - probably OK to sign up to DFD's new terms if it means you complete more quickly.

Hi UPMNII

Good and interesting as usual

Yes, I agree, they do seem to have gone quiet

As far as the storm in a teacup quote is concerned, mmm I am not so sure now about that one.

The back review quote is also quite interesting. I wonder if other companies have done this and an estimate for the future maybe.

Maybe a secured loan broker or two has done some homework or lobbying so to speak somewhere down the line.

People are now coming into the CAB offices (as was bound to happen) with these variation proposals asking for advice on whether to sign which has a certain amount of irony as the IVA companies are being paid substantial fees by their customers if you see the point.

What are the CAB advisers supposed to advise on these variations taking the above into account some are asking.This type of question may be very close to being directly and specifically asked over the road on the other forum a reliable source tells me

People surely deserve full and precise answers in their best interests.

Come on the IVA Industry people, lets get it sorted

Just my take

DC

Mr_F_Dorsetty

longtermplanner wrote: »

That figure is total nonsense. The IVA statistics have been improving recently, but even at their worst, they were never worse than 1 in 3 failing. Now it's closer to 1 in 5 IIRC. If you google IVA statistics, the Insolvency Service publishes figures.

of course they do. They are professionals who need to earn a living. Nothing wrong with that provided you are clear about the risks and aware of the alternatives when you choose an IVA.

Well now you see, we're going to be disagreeing here.

Firstly, I think you need to calm down, the whole disparaging 'total nonsense' thing? There's no need is there? You wouldn't be so offensive in real life to me I assure you, so do not do it here if you don't mind.

As I said I read 80% I didn't say it was right ... but even 20% as you are quoting is one hell of a lot of people.

If you went for an operation and they said "One in five dies" or "1 in 5 die on this stretch of road".... you wouldn't think twice? I surely would. And frankly this is a hugely important point in peoples lives, not one to get wrong.

As for IVA's & professional you'll have to excuse me being less than convinced in most cases. The IVA companies seem to be as professional as the 'Where there's blame there's a claim!' companies. Anyone who has dealt with one of them should know exactly what I mean.

An IVA does nothing that an even semi-competent person cannot do themselves, especially with the help of the CAB or similar. There is essentially nothing clever about an IVA, it is purely about persuading creditors that they'll get more if they take 20% of the outstanding debt or whatever the figure is, than nothing if the same person goes bankrupt.

Now, anyone who thinks that if you phone one of these companies off the internet or similar that you're not going to get a young person reading a script off a screen who was probably stacking shelves or selling car insurance a few weeks beforehand, then be prepared to be hugely disappointed.

As far as I can see they have 1 licensed person to maybe 10 operators. That's 1 person who knows what is what and holds a license, whilst the kids on the phones have very minimum training and are either are on commission to sell or are certainly on a conversion target.

Much like ATOS these companies say they're not and indeed ATOS has no target. But if a Dr or nurse has more than 12% fit for work after interview - they get 're-trained'.

Myself I used to sell financial services back in the good old days and very successfully, this is before the FSA rode into town. It was when commission only was King and all sorts got sold that shouldn't have been. Not by me, but by many.

In fact as I was employed by the company as a senior manager operating from head office nationally, I did spend quite a lot of my time clearing up various 'nightmares' that poorly trained sales people had created and smoothing the furrowed brows of the ripped off customers.

At my company we had a 100 - 110% turnover of field sales people dependent on year and every company was the same. If Allied Dunbar had of continued for another 20 years it would have employed 50% of the country, that is how bad their turnover was. There's more ex 'Allied Crowbar' sales people than Elvis impressionists in the world... so that's a lot

Since then I have oddly enough always be very wary of young kids whose wage depends on a sale - just like they are in IVA companies.

All I am saying to anyone is this;

Do not believe all the hype that bankruptcy is the end of your life because that is simply not true. If you live in rented accommodation then for most people bankruptcy needs to be looked at very carefully and seriously imo. The Official Reciever only takes things of real value, but not tools, clothes, TV's, computers and so forth. Yes, maybe your car or caravan or motorbike but not your household items and 3 piece suite.

6 years paying an IVA or 1 year bankrupt and replace your car? Has to be worth talking to a local Insolvency Practitioner surely before ringing IVA's R Us?

Plus, do not necessarily believe that an IVA is a better answer. you still have a 'sickly' credit score and it goes on for years and years as the OP has found.

It seems to me in an industry based on money, that pushing IVA's over bankruptcy makes great sense to everyone on that side of the fence - they get some capital back and someone is still making money out of you ... but it may well not be so great for you is my view.

I'm just musing.. everyone should do as they think best obviously; I sure as hell do

longtermplanner

I'm not saying IVAs are great. If you look back over my posting I often suggest that people should be looking at bankruptcy rather than an IVA.

But to back track from asserting that 80% fail to saying that the current figure of 20% is still bad is breath-taking ...

And I might have phrased my reply differently if you had a track record of helpful advice on MSE. Instead your recent posts here are frequently bizarrely wrong. just as was your 80% statistic.

Pinkprincess33

I received the same letter and deed of amendment today (dated December 2013) I obviously have missed the deadline to reply but I find this irrelevant as my IVA finished in January 2014 so I will not be signing anyway. I work with deed of amendments quite a lot in my current job and it's basically saying that you are assigning to the supervisor any further funds received from PPI claims after the plan has finished, so my assumption is that they are agreeing to finalise everything sooner without completing the claims but for anyone wanting to claim PPI themselves once the plan is finished they are asking people to sign to say they waive this right!

Louise84

longtermplanner wrote: »

That is bizarre. Reply with the word COMPLAINT in the email title. Then if they don't hurriedly back down, take this all the way through their complaints procedure :

Thanks for that, hubby has responded to them. They aren't sure how its happened and are looking into it x

longtermplanner

re the DFD Variation Pack:

It seems DFD have written to Debt Camel here: http://debtcamel.co.uk/dfd-comment-iva-variation/

So it someone is just completing their IVA or have already finished and are just wating for the completion certificate then signing this variation won't affect the already settled equity release issue. Which always seemed likely to be the case - DFD really should have made this clear so people wouldn't have been worrying about it.

This doesn't affect the problem of whether people who are still in the first few years of an IVA should sign or not. But at least the problem is solved for one group of people.

Depth_Charge

longtermplanner wrote: »

re the DFD Variation Pack:

It seems DFD have written to Debt Camel here: http://debtcamel.co.uk/dfd-comment-iva-variation/

So it someone is just completing their IVA or have already finished and are just wating for the completion certificate then signing this variation won't affect the already settled equity release issue. Which always seemed likely to be the case - DFD really should have made this clear so people wouldn't have been worrying about it.

This doesn't affect the problem of whether people who are still in the first few years of an IVA should sign or not. But at least the problem is solved for one group of people.

Hi

DFD need to make a clear and precise statement on what signing these documents mean as do organisations and spokespersons representing the IVA Industry I would have thought.

If people sign these documents does it mean that they will be open to secure loans instead of the standard 12 month payment extensions and if so this surely needs clearly explaining as this could have huge financial implications.

Are or have people already been contacted by brokers with lets say prepared secure loans when clearly the 12 month extension would apply and if so why and who's interests would this be in?

Maybe DFD or anyone from the IVA Industry, the other forum or secured loan brokers even would like to take the opportunity to come on here and make a statement.

I understand that questions have or are in the process of being formally put to DFD - perhaps we will get the answers soon.

I personally think that this and other issues are and will damage the IVA Industry and put people off going down what can be the right and appropriate solution

These are not difficult questions so why the delay?

Just my opinions, take and fair questions on extremely important issues

DC

UpToMyNeckInIt

Good updates.

I am sure the loan brokers and IVA industry reps would love to openly post here, unfortunately MSE do not allow it.

A great shame, as it would be nice to get opinion from 'all sides' so to speak.