Noise/Sound-Reducing Windows (Glazing)

Johnandabby

Furts wrote: »

I would wait until the new Regulations are clear and established. Then your ideal approach would be... "what meets the current Regulations and also will give me an element of sound deadening."

Details here for the new Part L Building Regulations which come into force in April. Very difficult to read as there is an amendment document that needs to be read together with the original 2010 L1B document.

Summary is that the govt couldn't be bothered to make any changes to this part, so is almost identical to previous regulations for replacement windows, ie maximum system (glazing + frame) U-value of 1.6 W/m2.K, unless it's in a conservation area where you can get away with maximum glazing only U-value of 1.2 W/m2.K.

Fizzymartini

Johnandabby wrote: »

Details here for the new Part L Building Regulations which come into force in April. Very difficult to read as there is an amendment document that needs to be read together with the original 2010 L1B document.

Summary is that the govt couldn't be bothered to make any changes to this part, so is almost identical to previous regulations for replacement windows, ie maximum system (glazing + frame) U-value of 1.6 W/m2.K, unless it's in a conservation area where you can get away with maximum glazing only U-value of 1.2 W/m2.K.

Thanks for this - if nothing significant is changing then it looks like we're a go for installing before April (good news for the bills!).

Johnandabby wrote: »

Projects that I've worked on with significant noise issues have used 4/12/4mm glazing units with 295mm air gap and then a 6mm inner pane.

Furts wrote: »

Currently for meeting the Regulations it is 4-20-4 for the glass, gap, glass.

Slightly confused by this. Johnandabby, is yours an example of triple-glazing? And wouldn't the two 4mm panes negate the advice to go for different thicknesses? Sorry if I'm being dense.

And yes, the need for additional ventilation is noted - I saw an article somewhere about special wall ventilators located above the windows, which I'm frantically rooting around trying to find again...

Johnandabby

Fizzymartini wrote: »

Slightly confused by this. Johnandabby, is yours an example of triple-glazing? And wouldn't the two 4mm panes negate the advice to go for different thicknesses?

It's a double glazed unit with secondary glazing internally, rather than a triple glazed unit. The large air gap between them is also important. The advice from the acoustic consultants on the projects was to ensure that the secondary glazing pane was a different thickness - if you are looking at double glazing only, then yes they would need to be different thicknesses.

leveller2911

I would recommend the OP consider Aluminium clad timber windows. They are expensive but they wouldn't need any maintenance on the outside, choice of any RAL colours and better sound insulation than Upvc.

As already mentioned having sealed units with 2 different thicknesses of glass would be a benefit typically 6mm and 4mm, I'm not sure theres much benefit in having a spacer bar over 12mm.

Fizzymartini

Aha, I found the section on ventilation, taken from the Crossrail's 'guide to noise insulation':

"...additional ventilation is often required ...a ventilator unit in a slim metal cover, fitted inside the room to an outside facing wall (a 75-100 mm hole is drilled through the wall, through which the fan draws in air from the outside)."

Gosh, this is shaping up to be quite the expensive investment...

motomoto_2

Hi Fizzymartini

Did you make a decision on your windows ?

bexs2247

Hi, sorry to resurrect an old thread!

Our new house is by a main road (we are probably 6 metres from actual road due to driveway and path). I find the lounge and hallway very noisy from traffic. We do have double glazing but think it's fairly old and some seals have gone so we have just booked in to have new Upvc windows. As it stands the profile is 5 chambers and steal reinforcement which is fine and the glass is 4mm - 20mm argon filled gap - 4mm. He has also quoted and extra £195 to have 6mm glass in the lounge window. I am wondering whether to do this?

The salesman said he personally doesn't think it will make much difference and advised against it but I am unsure?

Any advice appreciated as I will need to let them know when they surveyor comes round.

Thanks

Furts

My thoughts are:
1) it is weight/density that kills sound by absorbing it. Hence 6mm glass should help. There has also been an accepted wisdom that the glass panes should be different thickness so that they do not resonate, or act like a drum. So again 6mm glass would help with this.

2) Why did the salesman advise against it? What reason did he give? Is he qualified? Does he know his stuff? Is the £195 extra priced to discourage you?

3) The extra cost of £195 seems excessive. Why do you not negotiate and get this thrown into the deal as a sweetener to sign up?

4) What profile is it? There are seven section available and the more sections the better the sound insulation and energy efficiency. Hence I wonder if you are being offered a poor, cheap profile? What has the salesman explained on this?

5) For noise insulation the standard of fitting must be meticulous. Ensure that the fitters know what they are meant to be achieving and watch them like a hawk. This should have been explained by your salesman, but was it?

6) Trickle vents let in noise so can these be deleted? They may already have been. Again, this should have been explained by your salesman. But was it?

When you say the surveyor is coming round this suggests that you have placed the order. I wonder if you have protected your best interests and done your homework. Over to you on this one.

bexs2247

My other half has done the homework on this and we are happy with what we are getting, we've had 5 different companies round (from big to small) and spoken to other people. The salesman said as we are not directly on the road (unlike for example some terraced houses are) having the 6mm glass would not make much difference but it was up to us. This is a large bay window hence the £195 extra if we want it.

Not seen any with 7 section profile from any of the companies we looked at.

We are not having trickle vents.

I'm of the opinion to go for the 6mm glass to be honest

brightontraveller

Fizzymartini wrote: »

I'm purchasing an unmodernised flat within 50m of mainline railway and overground tube lines (the tracks snake around, virtually surround-sound!). So, I'm looking to replace the knackered single-glazed windows and patio door with acoustic double-glazing.

I've been researching furiously, and it looks like local councils recommend sealed double glazing with laminated glass (Pilkington Optiphon or SGG Stadip Silence), and NO trickle vents. For example:

• Birmingham Council recommends 8.8mm acoustic laminated glass - 20mm cavity - 12.8mm acoustic laminated glass
• Sefton Council recommends 6mm glass – 10-20mm cavity – 10.8mm acoustic laminated glass, or 8mm glass – 10-20mm cavity – 8.8mm acoustic laminated glass
• Brent Council recommends 8.4mm acoustic laminated glass - 16mm cavity - 6mm acoustic laminated glass/10mm glass

...so, er, lots of options :eek: But these were and were location-specific, and most were recommended to cut out road noise... which is a different frequency to trains? Does anyone know if the specs are different for buildings near railways?

Does anyone have any experience with acoustic-specfic glazing, and what did you get? I've also heard of AGC Thermobel Phonibel and Viracon Saflex SilentGlass, but no idea if they are comparable to the other two, more well-known, brands.

I want to get some idea of specifics before ringing round for quotes, as I'd like to be well-informed going in, and don't want to be taken for a ride. But I have no idea where to start

Best way to tell is identify the types of noise already there normally this means "independent acoustic consultant" phone a few find out there cost ?

Although its not so much a need to meet requirements of Approved Documents E more for a solution to eliminate those sounds that most annoy you work and either with them for best methods solutions or get a minimum requirement to cover each specific you have , anything else unfortunately is going to be very hit and miss.

If your putting in new windows trickle vents are something you really should consider Renson, do some quite good accustic vents * Invisivent http://www.rensonuk.net/united-kingdom-acoustic-window-ventilator-invisivent-evo-ak.html
you'll also find firms like them can likely advise you better then your normal glazing firm, joiner etc about types windows to prevent sound or put you in touch with the right people maybe not mention it just for one property more for a conversion of a number etc