unfair cessation fee on Talkmobile

grumbler

sdduk wrote: »

... its illegal to use a dongle or modem

Against the T&C maybe, but not illegal.

kingrulzuk

pyrwo wrote: »

•Here is how the excessive calls have been made – I have made a DIY system at home where the Talkmobile SIM is inserted into a USB mobile broadband dongle (also known as USB 3G modem) and the dongle is plugged into the home computer. Software allows voice calls to be routed through the Internet, through the home PC and through Talkmobile SIM in the dongle. This was made so relatives could call me on my mobile phone through the Internet instead of making expensive international calls to UK mobile. Unfortunately software vulnerability allowed a hacker to exploit the above-described system and to make those calls.
•.

OP can you plz give some more info on the DIY system you made??

grumbler

kingrulzuk wrote: »

OP can you plz give some more info on the DIY system you made??

What 'info' do you need? It was a primitive tethering + VOIP. I guess the OP's phone wasn't smart enough for this job.

"so relatives could call me on my mobile phone through the Internet" was obviously an incorrect and misleading statement.

pyrwo

The balance on the bill is purely of outgoing voice calls + cessation fee.
I feel the tethering is irrelevant and I could not have breached point 4.4 of the T&C because I have not used any mobile data. The data usage is £0.
Regarding p 7.8 of the T&C – I could have achieved the same result with an old mobile phone connected to my PC instead of 3G dongle. Also the 3G dongles are very common technology widely available and sold in shops and also by mobile operators. Even though these devices are widely advertised and mainly used for transfer of Internet data they are also designed for other functions as -> backing up and managing your SIM contacts; send, receive or backup SMS messages, allowing you to make calls from your computer….
I have not used the contract for business or commercial use.

I probably can argue whether I have breached the T&C or not and the outcome is not very clear. I could continue describing my circumstances and we could continue guessing which clause in the T&C I have breached, but the facts are:
1) Talkmobile want to cut all ties with me saying I have breached the T&C and demand cessation fees.
2) They are refusing so far to reveal details about the breach and to engage in discussion.
3) The payment of the fees on the second Talkmobile contract is due before the promised breach description arrival date.
4) Talkmobile have stopped one contract I have with them because I have breached another contract with them.
5) No one has yet advised me whether by any law Talkmobile are right to view my two contracts with them as associated and not as separate.

My wish is if someone could advise me on the following aspect:
Lets assume I have two identical contracts for two identical services with one party. Lets assume somehow I have breached the contract’s T&C for one of the services. Is that party in their right to stop my second contract with them? Is that party right to penalise me on the second contract for the breach of the first one?

Now after reviewing this post a second question comes into my mind. Obviously the 5 facts above are there and also I feel the cessation fee on my second contract is unfair. And the payment due date is the day after tomorrow. Would it be better if I pay the unfair bill first and then engage into dialog to get it back or I should cancel my DD and not pay it in first place? And if I do not pay it what could be the consequences?

Apologies for the long post.
Thanks everyone.

Silk

pyrwo wrote: »

Would it be better if I pay the unfair bill first and then engage into dialog to get it back or I should cancel my DD and not pay it in first place? And if I do not pay it what could be the consequences?

Thanks everyone.

If you don't pay they will pass it to debt collectors and trash your credit rating for the next 6 years.

As for refusing you as a customer, if you have abused the service it would be enough to ban you.
It would not matter how many accounts were in your name it would only apply to that "customer" not the accounts.
Think of it as losing your licence driving your BMW, it doesn't mean you can get in your Mondeo and still drive.

redux

pyrwo wrote: »

Thank you for the unexpected amount of quick replies so far. Below are details about my circumstances and answers to your questions.
•I have always paid my bills in full by DD (direct debit). Normally on both accounts I would never go over the inclusive amount and pay approx £7.70 per month. The amount of excessive international calls made is a bit over £200. The termination bill on the first account with all call charges and cessation fee has been paid by DD on the payment date. The DD due date on the second account is coming very soon and the last bill with the included cessation fee will also be paid.
•Here is how the excessive calls have been made – I have made a DIY system at home where the Talkmobile SIM is inserted into a USB mobile broadband dongle (also known as USB 3G modem) and the dongle is plugged into the home computer. Software allows voice calls to be routed through the Internet, through the home PC and through Talkmobile SIM in the dongle. This was made so relatives could call me on my mobile phone through the Internet instead of making expensive international calls to UK mobile. Unfortunately software vulnerability allowed a hacker to exploit the above-described system and to make those calls.
•I have not received an answer to my question which paragraph of the agreement I have breached. 10 days ago I have been told that my account is currently under review and that the department will contact me within 28 days via letter.
•The service is not temporary suspended. It is disconnected for operational reasons and following investigations my accounts cannot be reconnected.
•My accounts have not been suspended in the past.
•The Talkmobile T&C say something about Credit limit in paragraph 3.10, 3.11 and 3.12.
So I have to admit the DIY system at home, which I have set up, allowed those calls to be made even though I have not wanted or planed it. Initially I was not happy that the call charges were allowed to reach £200 when the call limit had been set to £50. But on a second thought I am glad that it was not allowed the bill to reach thousands of pounds as in some horrible articles about stolen mobile phones.

The wholesale cost of calls to UK mobiles is under a penny a minute, and it's possible to find retail prices of 1 to 2 pence a minute.

Given that, I really can't see why you decided you needed this genius system, which sounds rather along the GSM gateway lines that I speculated on earlier.

If this was hackable by people you either can or cannot identify, then the network's position that they might be exposed to hundreds or thousands of pounds worth of risk which you might be either unable or unwilling to pay for comes as little surprise.

I suggest you pose as a naif who didn't appreciate what might go wrong or that the network might see things as worse than you did, and hope to negotiate towards an escape with paying only the current bills and not the dated forwards charges for terminating the contract

gjchester

pyrwo wrote: »

My wish is if someone could advise me on the following aspect:
Lets assume I have two identical contracts for two identical services with one party. Lets assume somehow I have breached the contract’s T&C for one of the services. Is that party in their right to stop my second contract with them? Is that party right to penalise me on the second contract for the breach of the first one?

You may have two contract but do you have two accounts?


Could it be they are closing your primary contract due to the potential misuse and as both contracts sit under one account hence both are being closed?

pyrwo

Silk wrote: »

As for refusing you as a customer, if you have abused the service it would be enough to ban you.
It would not matter how many accounts were in your name it would only apply to that "customer" not the accounts.
Think of it as losing your licence driving your BMW, it doesn't mean you can get in your Mondeo and still drive.

Thanks for this post it made me think from different perspective. I agree if I have abused the service I could be banned but should not be made to pay for not using my second account.
Think of it as I have been caught driving my BMW 50miles/h over the speed limit and the BMW is not road legal. Then I am made to pay a £???, the car is confiscated and my license taken (ban to drive any car on the road). And the funny part – my Mondeo is taken and I pay another fine because the authorities say they are both on mine name and you misused the first one. And the Mondeo is road legal and I have not been driving it.

Or to continue with the associations topic: I post a parcel on Monday with a courier. Then I post a second parcel with the same courier on Tue. But on Wed the courier finds that the first parcel contains disallowed item (as liquid). Then they say: “You misused our service and we do not want you to use it anymore. We want to cut all ties with you. We will confiscate your first parcel without refunding you postage because it contains disallowed item. Additionally we will confiscate your second parcel posted with us on Tue, which contains no disallowed items and will not refund you for that in anyway.”
How right is this?

redux wrote: »

Given that, I really can't see why you decided you needed this genius system, which sounds rather along the GSM gateway lines that I speculated on earlier.

If this was hackable by people you either can or cannot identify, then the network's position that they might be exposed to hundreds or thousands of pounds worth of risk which you might be either unable or unwilling to pay for comes as little surprise.

I suggest you pose as a naif who didn't appreciate what might go wrong or that the network might see things as worse than you did, and hope to negotiate towards an escape with paying only the current bills and not the dated forwards charges for terminating the contract

You are quite right. The system turned out to be hackable and I did not foresee what might go wrong. As I said I am glad the network has some mechanism in place to protect itself against this identified risk and that the network stopped it at some stage.

gjchester wrote: »

You may have two contract but do you have two accounts?
Could it be they are closing your primary contract due to the potential misuse and as both contracts sit under one account hence both are being closed?

Two accounts billed separately on different monthly dates under different account numbers on the bills. Two contracts signed – the first 19 months ago and the second 5 months ago.

gjchester

pyrwo wrote: »

Two accounts billed separately on different monthly dates under different account numbers on the bills. Two contracts signed – the first 19 months ago and the second 5 months ago.

Was just a thought as when ever I've taken out a 2nd contract they end up in one account regardless of the time it taken out.

redux

pyrwo wrote: »

You are quite right. The system turned out to be hackable and I did not foresee what might go wrong. As I said I am glad the network has some mechanism in place to protect itself against this identified risk and that the network stopped it at some stage.

As well as that, think about it a bit more from their point of view. If they can believe the abuse is deliberate rather than inadvertent, then sanctioning the second account is fair enough.

In order to convince them otherwise, I think you need to say you realise now that your practice was marginal in respect of their terms, that some use by others that occurred was inadvertent, and at your cost, and incurring this unforeseen cost shows you weren't out to defraud them, you're an amateur at this not a professional.

Maybe it would also help your position if your second SIM has never been in the set-up that caused the problems.