Moving into a new house - get ripped off!

Nada666

tonyb6 wrote: »

In responce

When responsibility for a property changes hands, it's up to the new owner/tenant/landlord/letting agent to let us know about the change.

As in my other posts. As a new occupier I have no knowldge that you are the previus occupiers supplier. Am i expected to contact all the enegery suppliers and ask them if they previusly supplied my new property and if so am i then expected to ask not to place me into a contract that i didnt even know existed.

You're a grown adult. You are capable of saving up a few thousand pounds to pay a deposit and for removal costs and are capable of searching for a new home and telephoning agents or mortgage brokers. But you are not able to make two telephone calls to find out the gas and electricity suppliers?

At this point, we'll send out a Welcome Pack to the person taking over. This contains details of the tariff and the terms of supply.

As in my other posts above. I recieved no welcome pack from E-on. The first knowldge I had that your were the supplier to the property was when your bill arrived on the 30th Jan.

Did you contact them?

If we're not contacted, there's no way of us knowing of any changes.

You say if your not contacted then there is no way of knowing the new occupier in which case then maybe you can explain how your bill on teh 30th Jan was addressed to me by name ? Maybe your sourced this information from your customer, namely the previous occupier?

Okay, but, so?

Deemed contracts are an industry wide means of ensuring continuity of supply in these circumstances. As Cardew says, they're part of the relevant Gas and Electricity Utility Acts that govern the industry and are monitored by Ofgem.

Deemed contracts may well be law and monitored by Ofgem but they don't enforce E-on to fleece you by charging you their highest tariffs while your trapped in these contracts.

Again, so?

This may not apply to you, but deemed contracts only come into effect when energy is actually used. If there's no usage (say, in a holiday home, long-term vacant property etc) then we won't charge. We only charge where energy is used, even if it's just 1 kWh.

To be clear here. Its not the new occupier or person who needs to use energy but rather the property. So in the period between the previous occupier moving out on the 5th Jan and me moving in on the 13th Jan the house alarm which used electricity without my knowledge tied me into a deemed contract with yourselves and as such you placed me on your highest rate tariff without notification or agreement.

It may not be the most expensive (some fixes can be dearer). Plus, of course, cheaper tariffs often have early termination fees - you would rather be unknowingly put on a tariff that costs you £100 to move from?

Again, cooling off and objection periods during a change of supplier are regulatory requirements that all suppliers have to follow.

From which you benefit as you are able to hold me ransom and change me your highest tariffs until my supplier takes over or I sign "an agreed" contract with yourselves which then releases me from the un-agreed deemed contract

Yawn.

The cooling off period is given by the gaining supplier, not the losing supplier, to allow customers a change of heart.

In the above post you state the 3rd week of the switching period is given to the loosing supplier so that they may refuse to release the customer if they wish. Is this incorrect?

Clearly terribly significant.

For us, objections are usually made where a customer wishes to leave but there's a debt on the account.

But there can be other reasons to? hell why not your making money from me!

Someone has to 'make' money from the interim supply. It may as well be the previous occupants' choice.

As I said earlier, we only have 4 tariffs for customers with credit meters.

If you only have 4 tariffs then then why am I not able to directly compare your gas and electric prices? On my bill of which I am on your E.ON Energy Plan tariff I pay 14.09p per kWh for electric and 4.15p per kWh of gas. As you only have 4 tariffs please let me know what I would pay per kWh for my gas and electric if I were on your

A) E.ON Energy Fixed 1 Year v6 tariff and
E.ON Energy Fixed 2 Year v5 plans?

There's this new-fangled thing called t'Internet. It may help you here.

Prepayment meters are a different type of set up. Standing charges and unit rates are, though, the same whether it's a credit meter on a standard tariff or a prepayment meter.

On our standard tariff, standing charges and gas unit prices are the same wherever you are in the UK. There are, though, regional differences in the unit rates for electricity.

Just to be clear also when you say above your 'Standard Tariff. Do you mean your E. ON Energy Plan tariff or is the 'Standard tariff another tariff?

I'll concede this - the deemed standard tariff can be given lots of silly obfuscating names (and bills often have unfamiliar labels, too.)

Also for electricity, the prices will depend on whether your meter is a single rate or two rate Economy 7.

To recap, for a single rate credit meter in the North West, we've 4 tariffs available. Sorry this wasn't clear before.

And since we are trying to be clear you say "To recap, for a single rate credit meter in the North West, we've 4 tariffs available." My question again however is. Are these the same 4 tariffs available to a customers on a single rate credit meter in the South East or Midlands and as such are the charges the same?

?

You're right, we can only put you on a tariff with restrictions and eligibility criteria following a conversation with you and your acceptance of the terms.

Where as a deemed contract requires no acceptance from me.

Hence 'deemed'.

Just a thought, on one of our cheaper current tariffs, the
cancellation fee is £5 per fuel. Depending on your usage and how long it takes for Npower to take over the account, might be worth going on to this tariff until the switch. The cancellation fee could be swallowed up by cheaper unit rates. Not saying this will be the case, just something to be aware of.

You say above "on one of your cheaper tariffs the cancellation fee is only £5 per fuel". If you only have 4 tariffs, namely the
E.ON Energy Plan,
E.ON Energy Fixed 1 Year v6,
E.ON Energy Fixed 2 Year v5
60+ Aged UK fixed
maybe you can tell me which tariff your statement applies to and also the bit that I really don't understand is why does it depend on my usage! Surely your not saying a customer who uses 100 units of gas per time period pays a different amount (or tariff) than say another customer who uses 500 units of gas in the same period?

The cheapest one - it popped up for me on a comparison check.

Regards

Methinks you just like a whinge - this is, of course, the right room for a whinge. But wanting to whinge of itself does not make the complaint have any substance.

Deemed contracts exist. You now know you will shockingly have to make a couple of telephone calls every single time you flit (horrors!) You have not suggested a reasonable alternative.

Deemed contracts or flashlights and calor gas heaters - I know which most prefer.

cajef

Maybe it is just me but whenever I have moved into a property I have always asked the previous owners who supplies the utilities, that way I could then inform the various companies that I had moved in on the completion day and give them meter readings, that way I would not be responsible for any of the previous occupiers usage and I have the advantage of knowing who the suppliers are and can either negotiate with them or change supplier.

Even in my present property which was a deceased estate the companies were supplied on request through the vendors solicitor.

tonyb6

Nada666 wrote: »

Methinks you just like a whinge - this is, of course, the right room for a whinge. But wanting to whinge of itself does not make the complaint have any substance.

Deemed contracts exist. You now know you will shockingly have to make a couple of telephone calls every single time you flit (horrors!) You have not suggested a reasonable alternative.

Deemed contracts or flashlights and calor gas heaters - I know which most prefer.

I have suggested a reasonable alternatives you just havent bothered to read the whole thread. Water utilities companies, telecoms and even your local authority all manage to supply services but in truth I think we all know where you sit with regards to the Energy companies Nada. From a quick look at your statistics and noticing how many times you post comments on supporting these companies I think its quite clear for all to see your one of their little puppy dogs.

cajef

tonyb6 wrote: »

I think its quite clear for all to see your one of their little puppy dogs.

This is an open forum anyone can post their opinions and mostly they are very helpful, just because you choose not to like or agree with the posts regulars make does not mean you have to accuse them of being 'little puppy dogs', it never ceases to amaze how many newbies do this on the forum when they don't like the truth.

AndyPK

Without reading it all npower are a nightmare to move two and will take 2 months I reckon.

So you should move to the cheapest eon tarrif for now.

Nada666

tonyb6 wrote: »

I have suggested a reasonable alternatives you just havent bothered to read the whole thread. Water utilities companies, telecoms and even your local authority all manage to supply services but in truth I think we all know where you sit with regards to the Energy companies Nada. From a quick look at your statistics and noticing how many times you post comments on supporting these companies I think its quite clear for all to see your one of their little puppy dogs.

I did try to read your alternatives but find it difficult to parse waffle through glazing-over eyes. If Richie-from-the-Boro and me are against your stance your final presumption is questionable.

I am certainly not their dog - but equally certainly do not believe the customer is always right (especially when they're wrong.)

Richie-from-the-Boro

Other things to watch for were / are :

From 22 October 2013:

Suppliers will be banned from increasing prices on fixed term deals or making other changes to fixed term tariffs (except tracker tariffs or structured price increases set out in advance which are fully in line with consumer protection law).

Suppliers will also be banned from rolling forward household customers onto fixed term contracts without their consent.
Customers will be given a 42-49 day window before the end date of their fixed term tariff to decide if they want to stay with the supplier or switch.

By the end of December 2013 suppliers must:

Cut down the number of tariffs in the market to make it easier for customers to find the best deal for them. They will only be able to offer up to four tariffs for gas and four for electricity.
Make it is easier for customers to compare offers by ensuring all tariffs in the market are structured in the same way with a standing charge (which can be set at zero) and a unit rate.
Make sure discounts for dual fuel (when you take gas and electricity from the same supplier) and managing your energy account online are clear and easy to compare.

By the end of March 2014 each supplier must:

Give all their customers personalised information on the cheapest tariff they offer for them. This information will appear on each bill and on a range of other customer communications.
Make sure that all information given to consumers is simple and more engaging.

Use a new Tariff Comparison Rate (TCR), in all their communications with customers to provide “at a glance” information to help them compare tariffs. The TCR will be similar to the APR comparison rate used with credit cards. Ofgem is also requiring suppliers to provide personalised estimates which take account of a customer’s usage to enable them to compare tariffs more accurately when switching.
Use a new tariff information label setting out key terms and conditions as well as relevant information to help consumers compare across suppliers.

By 30th June 2014 suppliers must:

Transfer all customers on existing, expensive ‘dead tariffs’ (i.e. tariffs that are no longer marketed) onto their cheapest variable rate. A supplier will only be able to keep consumers on ‘dead tariffs’ if they are cheaper, or as cheap, as the supplier’s lowest standard or evergreen tariff.

tonyb6

cajef wrote: »

This is an open forum anyone can post their opinions and mostly they are very helpful, just because you choose not to like or agree with the posts regulars make does not mean you have to accuse them of being 'little puppy dogs', it never ceases to amaze how many newbies do this on the forum when they don't like the truth.

So it OK for those "regular" posters to dismiss people as being nothing more than "whingers" is it?

I have a legitimate argument here against Deemed contracts and I welcome anyone with any views or opinions on those Deeemed contracts. If a regular poster wishes to try and deviate from the central topic of Deemed contracts by trying to pursade other readers that I'm noting more than I whinger rather than directly auguring the points raised then so be it and I will respond accordingly

tonyb6

AndyPK wrote: »

Without reading it all npower are a nightmare to move two and will take 2 months I reckon.

So you should move to the cheapest eon tarrif for now.

I suspect your right Andy. Its been a 4 weeks since the switch and nothing heard back from NPower. Mind you its been over 6 weeks since moving in and I've yet to receive a welcome pack from E.ON.

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

tonyb6 wrote: »

I suspect your right Andy. Its been a 4 weeks since the switch and nothing heard back from NPower. Mind you its been over 6 weeks since moving in and I've yet to receive a welcome pack from E.ON.

You didn't tell them you moved in until a month ago, so I think you should count from then