RSPB Membership...

tinkledom

cattermole wrote: »

Yes we know.

Thank you so much for all the information.

It's a pleasure, I do think it important to make sure that people are aware of their responsibilities when claiming benefits.

Parva

tinkledom wrote: »

I think that more of this should happen. Far too many people have stretched the definition of what constitutes a disability and how it would affect someone.

Well you would certainly know given that you have alluded to no longer being entitled to benefits under PiP and your refusal to fill in the paperwork because you won't score enough points. Knowing how long you screwed the system for has obviously tainted your view that everyone else is as deceitful....

tinkledom

Parva wrote: »

Well you would certainly know given that you have alluded to no longer being entitled to benefits under PiP and your refusal to fill in the paperwork because you won't score enough points. Knowing how long you screwed the system for has obviously tainted your view that everyone else is as deceitful....

How do you come to that conclusion? Are you party to the assessment records held by the DWP when they carried out my last face to face DLA review in 2011?


The DWP were quite happy as was ATOS when once again I was awarded HRM & MRC.


Now PIP is a totally different thing. The goal posts have been moved as has the way the benefit is assessed. No longer is it based on what needs you may have, but on various fixed descriptors. You either fit them or you don't. Now there are some amongst us that find pleasure in once again 'stretching' the descriptors to fit. The descriptors talk of aids when moving about, so some bright spark decided to argue that they had to use a SatNav!! Once again the public will try to stretch anything just as long as there is a fit.


Me, I'm not interested in playing games with the DWP, so I accept that when PIP does come in, there is no point in making an application.

A_Flock_Of_Sheep

tinkledom wrote: »

How do you come to that conclusion? Are you party to the assessment records held by the DWP when they carried out my last face to face DLA review in 2011?


The DWP were quite happy as was ATOS when once again I was awarded HRM & MRC.


Now PIP is a totally different thing. The goal posts have been moved as has the way the benefit is assessed. No longer is it based on what needs you may have, but on various fixed descriptors. You either fit them or you don't. Now there are some amongst us that find pleasure in once again 'stretching' the descriptors to fit. The descriptors talk of aids when moving about, so some bright spark decided to argue that they had to use a SatNav!! Once again the public will try to stretch anything just as long as there is a fit.


Me, I'm not interested in playing games with the DWP, so I accept that when PIP does come in, there is no point in making an application.

I am guessing you are referring to the descriptor that speaks of using an orientation aid. So what is a SatNav if it isn't an orientation aid?

What orientation aids to the DWP mean then?

You just talk utter horse manure at every opportunity.

tinkledom

A_Flock_Of_Sheep wrote: »

I am guessing you are referring to the descriptor that speaks of using an orientation aid. So what is a SatNav if it isn't an orientation aid?

What orientation aids to the DWP mean then?

You just talk utter horse manure at every opportunity.

Do I?


Yes this is the descriptor that I am referring to:


d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid.




Now to me and probably the majority of ordinary people, that section deals with those that are blind and may need a dog or a white stick, those that are so mentally disabled that they would be a danger to themselves and others if they did not have someone to guide them, those that are deaf and have some deterioration in their eyesight and need someone to help them. For the life of me and others I doubt very much that using a hand held or vehicle mounted SatNav was ever dreamed of by those that set down what the descriptors would be.
If SatNav's had never been invented what else would they have used? A map and compass?? Maybe they would have to go on an orientation course to be able to read the map?


Talk about stretching the boundary of what the descriptor was intended to encompass.

A_Flock_Of_Sheep

tinkledom wrote: »

Do I?


Yes this is the descriptor that I am referring to:


d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid.




Now to me and probably the majority of ordinary people, that section deals with those that are blind and may need a dog or a white stick, those that are so mentally disabled that they would be a danger to themselves and others if they did not have someone to guide them, those that are deaf and have some deterioration in their eyesight and need someone to help them. For the life of me and others I doubt very much that using a hand held or vehicle mounted SatNav was ever dreamed of by those that set down what the descriptors would be.
If SatNav's had never been invented what else would they have used? A map and compass?? Maybe they would have to go on an orientation course to be able to read the map?


Talk about stretching the boundary of what the descriptor was intended to encompass.

It might be your view but it isn't the view of those that matter. They are called the DWP.

Anyway I am interested to hear what your definition of "orientation aid" is?

And how did blind people get on before guide dogs were invented and deaf people before hearing aids?

Surely someone who is at risk of falling (such as someone with ME/Fibro) is a danger to themselves if they fall. And yes this happens despite your thoughts. If they fell into another person they could be a danger to them. It is about needing the assistance of another person when on an unfamiliar journey. It really is that simple. If you need someone (due to your disability) to carry your luggage, assist in dealing with public transport or even drive you somewhere then you CLEARLY satisfy the descriptor.

As the Catch Phrase phrase said - If you see it - say it!

But anyway you don't make up the rules the DWP do and I am sure if they didn't accept a SatNav as an orientation air the would not award the descriptor.

You perhaps need to read the Benefits and Work guide to PIP which details the official PIP legislation/rules on that descriptor.

tinkledom

A_Flock_Of_Sheep wrote: »

It might be your view but it isn't the view of those that matter. They are called the DWP.

Anyway I am interested to hear what your definition of "orientation aid" is?

And how did blind people get on before guide dogs were invented and deaf people before hearing aids?

Surely someone who is at risk of falling (such as someone with ME/Fibro) is a danger to themselves if they fall. And yes this happens despite your thoughts. If they fell into another person they could be a danger to them. It is about needing the assistance of another person when on an unfamiliar journey. It really is that simple. If you need someone (due to your disability) to carry your luggage, assist in dealing with public transport or even drive you somewhere then you CLEARLY satisfy the descriptor.

As the Catch Phrase phrase said - If you see it - say it!

But anyway you don't make up the rules the DWP do and I am sure if they didn't accept a SatNav as an orientation air the would not award the descriptor.

You perhaps need to read the Benefits and Work guide to PIP which details the official PIP legislation/rules on that descriptor.

For a start I don't subscribe to web based money making machines such as that site you mentioned.

My definition of an orientation aid is a compass, a pair of dividers, a pencil, a ruler and a copy of the local Ordnance Survey map of the area.

I have a pretty shrewd idea on what they suggest. They are the type that will try to turn and twist anything to try and get it to mean what you want it to mean - totally unethical.


To me 'what it says on the tin is what you get'.


Do you make a job out of trying to identify all of the grey areas of benefit legislation?


To me it's black & white.


So if I got myself one of these fangled things and told the DWP that because of my mental health problems as well as the effects of my other physical conditions and explained that I would be too nervous of going on an unfamiliar trip without help in getting there - they would tell me that the SatNav thingy is an aid in helping me achieve that goal?


God help us if that is actually the case. I wouldn't know how to switch one on - I use the tried and trusted method of map reading.

A_Flock_Of_Sheep

tinkledom wrote: »

For a start I don't subscribe to web based money making machines such as that site you mentioned.

My definition of an orientation aid is a compass, a pair of dividers, a pencil, a ruler and a copy of the local Ordnance Survey map of the area.

I have a pretty shrewd idea on what they suggest. They are the type that will try to turn and twist anything to try and get it to mean what you want it to mean - totally unethical.


To me 'what it says on the tin is what you get'.


Do you make a job out of trying to identify all of the grey areas of benefit legislation?


To me it's black & white.


So if I got myself one of these fangled things and told the DWP that because of my mental health problems as well as the effects of my other physical conditions and explained that I would be too nervous of going on an unfamiliar trip without help in getting there - they would tell me that the SatNav thingy is an aid in helping me achieve that goal?


God help us if that is actually the case. I wouldn't know how to switch one on - I use the tried and trusted method of map reading.

Then your old fashioned map and compass is an orientation aid too.

PIP Is a modern benefit for a modern society. It takes account of technology for disabled people. SatNav wasn't main stream when DLA was invented. PIP has simply caught up with tools that are available.

I suggest if you don't like the orientation aid part you lobby your MP to get it removed. Maybe even lobby to get the "another person" bit taken out too leaving only a Guide Dog.

Morglin

tinkledom wrote: »

For a start I don't subscribe to web based money making machines such as that site you mentioned.

My definition of an orientation aid is a compass, a pair of dividers, a pencil, a ruler and a copy of the local Ordnance Survey map of the area.

I have a pretty shrewd idea on what they suggest. They are the type that will try to turn and twist anything to try and get it to mean what you want it to mean - totally unethical.


To me 'what it says on the tin is what you get'.


Do you make a job out of trying to identify all of the grey areas of benefit legislation?


To me it's black & white.


So if I got myself one of these fangled things and told the DWP that because of my mental health problems as well as the effects of my other physical conditions and explained that I would be too nervous of going on an unfamiliar trip without help in getting there - they would tell me that the SatNav thingy is an aid in helping me achieve that goal?


God help us if that is actually the case. I wouldn't know how to switch one on - I use the tried and trusted method of map reading.

You can use a compass and read a map, yet you cannot turn a SatNav on? :rotfl:

Wow, even my 6 year old grandson can work a SatNav......:T

How on earth do you manage with a computer?

Lin :think:

tinkledom

Morglin wrote: »

You can use a compass and read a map, yet you cannot turn a SatNav on? :rotfl:

Wow, even my 6 year old grandson can work a SatNav......:T

How on earth do you manage with a computer?

Lin :think:

With great difficulty to be honest. I've been using a computer for about 4 years (since I retired at 60). I can only do limited things on it email and surf.
As for the rest I haven't got a clue.


As for a SatNav, I have seen them work but they are very technical as far as I can see - far too many things to touch.


Having said that could you manage to find your way home from a strange place miles away just using a map and compass?


Yes my youngest grandson at age 6 is well versed already into all manner of Ipads & I pods?. He loses me when he tries to tell me that I can talk and see him from my computer!!! Yeah right.


I prefer the old traditional equipment, much less to go wrong with it. Preferring even to write a letter and post it than to send an email as I have no idea who else can see what it says.