Anyone been fined yet for taking kids out of school?

Gra76

daisiegg wrote: »

1) If it were that simple to complete a week or two weeks' worth of work on their own in their own time, why even have schools or teachers in the first place? Surely we could just sit kids in a room with some worksheets and they would learn perfectly well...?

Well that's a bizarre way of looking at it.

Kids catch up at home in their own time, if they've got any questions they can ask either their parents or their teacher for help when they get back to school.

2) In an earlier post you mentioned coming back from holiday to find all your work 'in your drawer'. Not sure if you are referring to primary school or what, but most students do not have 'drawers' or a central place to put work. Therefore, if they are a secondary student, their ten or more different teachers for different subjects would each need to put together a pack of work, seek out the student when they return from holiday and give this to them. Bearing in mind that a secondary teacher usually teaches hundreds of different students, any number of whom could be off at any given time, this becomes a bit more complicated than just placing work in a drawer. In an ideal world, the student would go to see each of their teachers to get missed work. In practice, this does not happen. Which brings me to my next point...

I'm referring to primary school age children as I was bringing the point up as it's my 9 yr old son who we're taking out of school, but you'd have known that had you read further back. They have drawers (the same as I had at school).

I don't for a second believe all schools are the same but you clearly do. As a matter of interest, when I attended my secondary school we still had drawers. We all sat in alphabetical order in every class, and we all had our own desks so yes, even in secondary school the teachers would make sure that our homework was in our desks for when we came back from holiday. The person who sat next to you would be in charge of making sure the homework was removed from your desk and put into your 'form' desk. We were told what we'd missed and we were expected to catch up. We did. It's not rocket science, it's down to application of the student and enforcement by the parents to make sure it's done.

3) Students DON'T catch up. You are saying you and your peers all did - well good for you. That is the way it should be. Now, schools have very little ability to enforce anything with their pupils (see the thread currently running about a mother who has taken her child out of school because she is being punished by missing some play time). How do you suggest the students are made to catch up? Because I will guess most of your suggestions would involve more work for their multiple teachers (including anything from spending extra time with the student to explain things, chasing them up to get the work in, phoning home to remind parents that the work needs to be done, etc...), all of whom could have numerous students having missed different bits of work all needing to catch up at any given time. This takes a lot of time away from what a teacher is meant to be doing.

Unless you have a very conscientious student, with parents who are on the ball, chances are, work that is missed while on holiday will never be 'caught up'. This then leads to myriad problems later in the year when the student is approaching exams or coursework and struggles because they missed a crucial part of their learning.

Ultimately, absence for any reason has been proven to have a negative and measurable impact on student achievement. Therefore, it is only responsible for the government to try and limit this as far as possible. They can't stop children getting sick, but they can try to stop their parents taking them on holiday when they should be in school.

Good parenting makes sure the kids catch up. If your child fails to catch up it's because the parents haven't enforced it. Why would it involve any more work for the teachers? That's got to be the stupidest suggestion so far. It's up to the parents to make sure kids catch up, end of story.

Mojisola

Gra76 wrote: »

Good parenting makes sure the kids catch up. If your child fails to catch up it's because the parents haven't enforced it. Why would it involve any more work for the teachers? That's got to be the stupidest suggestion so far. It's up to the parents to make sure kids catch up, end of story.

Do you really think that all parents are good parents?

You've lived a very sheltered life if you think that's the case.

Undervalued

Mojisola wrote: »

Do you really think that all parents are good parents?

I've no idea what Gra76 thinks but in my view of course not.

However, I certainly don't think all schools are good schools or all teachers are good teachers either.

What I don't like though is the ever increasing, all seeing, all knowing state imposing its will on everything.

Perhaps all kids should be handed over at birth to the great wondrous state and only released as perfect adults!

Fanciful overstatement? Yes, of course but more seriously where do you draw the line? That is more difficult.......

Mojisola

Undervalued wrote: »

I've no idea what Gra76 thinks but in my view of course not.

However, I certainly don't think all schools are good schools or all teachers are good teachers either.

What I don't like though is the ever increasing, all seeing, all knowing state imposing its will on everything.

Perhaps all kids should be handed over at birth to the great wondrous state and only released as perfect adults!

Fanciful overstatement? Yes, of course but more seriously where do you draw the line? That is more difficult.......

I really don't understand this. Do you think that parents regularly took their children out of school for holidays in previous generations and it's only now that the government is stopping it?

I don't remember anyone going on holiday during term time when I was at school. It was also very rare when our children were at school and, if it happened, was because of parents' work commitments or similar. The legislative change has come about because parents' behaviour has changed.

Of course not all schools or teachers are good but it's your choice to keep sending your child to school. If you have so little respect for what goes on in school that you think missing two weeks won't matter, perhaps you should be looking for a better school.

Gra76

Mojisola wrote: »

Do you really think that all parents are good parents?

You've lived a very sheltered life if you think that's the case.

I don't recall stating all parents are good parents. You're trying to put words in my mouth now. Must try harder.

Good parents will make sure their children catch up though. Bad parents wouldn't make their kids do their homework when they get back from holiday and probably wouldn't make them do it whilst they're at school anyway.

Gra76

Mojisola wrote: »

I really don't understand this. Do you think that parents regularly took their children out of school for holidays in previous generations and it's only now that the government is stopping it?

I don't remember anyone going on holiday during term time when I was at school. It was also very rare when our children were at school and, if it happened, was because of parents' work commitments or similar. The legislative change has come about because parents' behaviour has changed.

Of course not all schools or teachers are good but it's your choice to keep sending your child to school. If you have so little respect for what goes on in school that you think missing two weeks won't matter, perhaps you should be looking for a better school.

I don't think parents take their kids out of school any more than they used to. I think it's only become a problem since the introduction of fines which has brought it into the limelight more.

As for teachers, there's good ones and there's bad ones, the same as in any walk of life. One of the teachers who did the French language classes at our secondary school would regularly hit pupils over the head with a ruler if they so much as whispered out of turn in her lesson. If they were at the back of the class they'd get a board rubber thrown at them. She was a nut-job of the highest order. She'd wouldn't have held a teaching post these days as she'd have spent half her time in court being prosecuted for GBH. I personally thought her teaching style worked, but then I was well behaved and very rarely felt the back of her ruler or the butt of a board rubber in my face.

You mentioned above about work commitments being the reason for kids being taken out of school as a reason for holidays in term time. If you re-read my original post you'll see that's exactly why I'm taking my family abroad during term time. I'm not taking the family away in June because I couldn't be bothered booking it in August, my wife can't physically have any other time off for a holiday other than the first couple of weeks in June. Is that ok now? I'm guessing you'll say it still isn't...

Undervalued

Mojisola wrote: »

I really don't understand this.

The rest of your post makes that fairly clear!

Mojisola

Undervalued wrote: »

What I don't like though is the ever increasing, all seeing, all knowing state imposing its will on everything.

Mojisola wrote: »

I really don't understand this.

If you want to quote me, do it in context.

Do you really think that the state is imposing its will on everything?

Undervalued

Mojisola wrote: »

Do you really think that the state is imposing its will on everything?

I think it is creeping inexorably in that direction. The state interferes far more in everyday life than it used to and this issue is just one example amongst many.

Gra76 makes some excellent points and is ultimately responsible for their children's upbringing. Obviously school education is a very large part of that but their are other aspects of life as well.

Legally you only have to ensure that your child receives an education, you don't have to send them to school.

Mojisola

Undervalued wrote: »

I think it is creeping inexorably in that direction. The state interferes far more in everyday life than it used to and this issue is just one example amongst many.

As I remember things when I was growing up and from hearing the earlier generations' memories, life was much controlled previously but it was an informal social control. There was a lot of pressure to conform to the generally established norms - people who stepped outside these norms had life made very uncomfortable by other people.

The state might be formalising some of these things but we are generally much freer to live our lives as we want these days.