Applying for PIP - is it worth it?

A_Flock_Of_Sheep

I am sure there are examples of "life threatening" conditions that will fail a benefit claim. But it is not about whether a condition is life threatening or not. It is based on the condition making the person need the care and mobility needs laid down in the benefit criteria. You may very well have a person with a life threatening condition that can lead a perfectly normal life, work and take vacations. On the other hand an ME sufferer although not life threatening, by the very nature of the condition cannot lead a normal life and meets the criteria for benefit. A condition being life threatening does not automate a successful benefit claim I am afraid.

Indie_Kid

A_Flock_Of_Sheep wrote: »

To get enhanced mobility PIP you must score 12 points which is the under 20 metre rule or score by gaining points from the lower mobility and points from physical problems.

There is also a descriptor for help with getting around (not the physical problems, the other section) for which you can get 12 points, therefore, enhance mobility, which I qualify for.

tinkledom

A_Flock_Of_Sheep wrote: »

If the PIP claimants condition is terminal then the same rules apply as did with DLA. There is a fast track route for this. There is also a route for those with severe anxiety and have had suicide attempts to be processed without the need for a face to face medical.

The cruel reality of PIP is basically hyped up by the media and compounded by those who were long term DLA claimants now finding they no longer qualify for PIP.

Generally those who cant walk more than 50 metres falling fowl of the PIP requirement which is now 20 metres. Both my friends with ME qualified for PIP by gaining points from the No More Than 200 metres physical ability and 10 points from the needing assistance (previously lower mobility DLA). Combined points giving enough to qualify for enhanced PIP mobility. To get enhanced mobility PIP you must score 12 points which is the under 20 metre rule or score by gaining points from the lower mobility and points from physical problems.

The beauty of PIP is it recognises the use of aids. Again in the two ME cases both claimants use lightweight pans, slotted spoons and a perching stool for cooking. Thus awarding them points immediately before then providing evidence of danger providing Brucey Bonus points.

That's very interesting. However and this may help the OP
How can you equate:


e. Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant.


with:


b. Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided


They just don't go together unless I am being thick.


You can move up to 200 metres on one hand, but cannot undertake that journey due to psychological distress?


What are you saying? That whilst you are able to move up to 200 metres physically, you cannot do so because if you did you would suffer psychological distress?


Did you have a psychological examination to be able to prove that?


In my case I can't move more then 60 metres without having to stop because of the amount of pain I am in. I take a breather of say a few minutes and try another 60 metres and so on. Where would someone like me suffer psychological distress? I get annoyed (and that's putting it mildly) preferring that if I had the choice I would sooner stay at home and not go out. But that to me is the easy option, I push myself through the pain and discomfort knowing that there are a lot more people with worse capabilities than I have.


Isn't the psychological descriptor more to do with a mental health issue for which you are receiving treatment? Say PTSD where there is a mental health cause which manifests itself in avoidance? Why would someone with ME have mental health issues because of that condition?


No that doesn't apply to me, I only use a stick to help myself along which to be honest was something that I bought and was not suggested by the GP. As such it is not an aid. As for the rest, no I avoid things that I know that I cannot do such as cooking, cleaning etc - my daughter comes in to do that for us.
My wife however has a list as long as your arm of things that Social Services have provided and we have bought.
She claims (used to claim) Attendance Allowance, but all of the aids now help her to be pretty normal around the house.

tinkledom

A_Flock_Of_Sheep wrote: »

Anyway tinkledom PIP won't affect you soon because according to a previous post you draw your state pension in June so it will be Attendance Allowance for you. And I am quite sure if you put your mind to it and thought carefully you would qualify for PIP too.

Of course it will affect me, it will affect everybody that was over 16 and under 65 on the 8th April 2013. I am not 65 until June this year.


Mind you the way things are going, the national roll out isn't likely to start until 2016 and will last at least 2 years to assess everybody. If I'm towards the end of the queue I could well be 69 by June 2018. So it seems reasonably certain that I will keep my DLA until then. When my turn comes, I will then have to evaluate if I would be successful in the alternative benefit - Attendance allowance.

tinkledom

A_Flock_Of_Sheep wrote: »

I am sure there are examples of "life threatening" conditions that will fail a benefit claim. But it is not about whether a condition is life threatening or not. It is based on the condition making the person need the care and mobility needs laid down in the benefit criteria. You may very well have a person with a life threatening condition that can lead a perfectly normal life, work and take vacations. On the other hand an ME sufferer although not life threatening, by the very nature of the condition cannot lead a normal life and meets the criteria for benefit. A condition being life threatening does not automate a successful benefit claim I am afraid.

That is certainly becoming clear to me!


I can foresee complaints about PIP certainly from those that have previously had high rates of DLA but fail in a PIP claim. And especially from those that to all and sundry everybody would expect them to qualify because of the disabilities that they have but don't quite fit any of the descriptors that are supposed to define how a disability will affect people.

tinkledom

Indie_Kid wrote: »

There is also a descriptor for help with getting around (not the physical problems, the other section) for which you can get 12 points, therefore, enhance mobility, which I qualify for.

I know there is but for the life of me I can't see how it can come into play for someone that has mobility difficulties that also doesn't have mental health issues.
The planning and following journeys descriptor to me, unless I am missing the point, reads for people who have mental health issues that through a problem with the brain cannot plan for and/or follow a journey. Those that have awareness issues, PTSD, or the lack of brain development/brain injury.


For those that only have dodgy legs etc,I can't see how they could qualify under the above descriptor. Mind you I suppose I could say that I stay in bed day and night because I want to avoid having to go out knowing how I would feel (pain) if I did - pushing the boat a bit?

A_Flock_Of_Sheep

tinkledom wrote: »

I know there is but for the life of me I can't see how it can come into play for someone that has mobility difficulties that also doesn't have mental health issues.
The planning and following journeys descriptor to me, unless I am missing the point, reads for people who have mental health issues that through a problem with the brain cannot plan for and/or follow a journey. Those that have awareness issues, PTSD, or the lack of brain development/brain injury.


For those that only have dodgy legs etc,I can't see how they could qualify under the above descriptor. Mind you I suppose I could say that I stay in bed day and night because I want to avoid having to go out knowing how I would feel (pain) if I did - pushing the boat a bit?

The two people I refer to did not score from the descriptors you mention. They scored:

10 Points: Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. The claim was based on the other one of familiar journey. I still conclude they should have got that one but it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Aim high I guess and then if it drops back one it's not a problem!

The claim was based on needing assistance both cognitively and physically and referred to the descriptor below and also the use of an orientation aid. Satellite Navigation in a car and the ramefications from a disruption to a journey such as cancelled or delayed public transport. All backed up by the timely, safely and reliably rule.

and;

8 Points: Can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres

This is self explanatory but dwelled on the timely, repeatedly and safely rule. Other evidence provided was an OT's report form the council for a Blue Badge. This proved to be very strong evidence.

Total combined points 18 providing entitlement to Enhanced Rate Mobility PIP.

A_Flock_Of_Sheep

It is not just about "getting lost" it is about needing assistance when traveling on an unfamiliar journey which also can involve staying overnight away from home where the care needs kick in away from home. You need to start thinking more broadly and seeing the bigger picture. The descriptors are short and snappy. If you know you wouldn't go on a an unfamiliar journey without the assistance from another person then clearly that descriptor applies. It does exactly what it says on the tin.

Some people with ME do drive but a long and unfamiliar journey can be too much and too fatiguing. Therefore another person can drive them or share the driving. They clearly need the help of another person. It might not sound much to you but it is assistance and is the difference between the person living a more fulfilling and independent life and sitting at home turning into a fossil.

Like I said start looking at the bigger picture.

Edit - And you reference to the illness as "Only" being ME is quite offensive. It is actually quite a debilitating and restricting illness that can destroy the life and career of someone who was previously unaffected rendering them unable to work or limited to any work they can do. One of the people I know had an amazing job earning nearly £60k a year. £500 a month PIP doesn't even come close to plugging the loss of salary gap. The person would much rather be back in the position they were in I can assure you.

cbrown372

tinkledom wrote: »

That's it from me, I am as lost now as I was at the start. How the OP can understand all of this I don't know. Mental health problems caused by the pain from walking??
Maybe I am not as disabled as those who are suffering from ME. I thought my health was bad, but this thread has given me heart in that those with ME/Fibro seem to be in a far worse position.
I'm out of this now and thanks for the insight into ME which to me now seems to outweigh any other disability excluding only having 6 months to live!

I'm grief stricken for you that you are quite so ill with only five shortl years to look forward to (goodness knows how many user names though) but perhaps you could do the OP the courtesy of reading the OP and acting on the fact that she asked very nicely for you to stray off her thread. So far you have 29 posts, now please, do one!

A_Flock_Of_Sheep

I think the 10 point descriptor for needing assistance on an unfamilar journey fits in well for people with ME on a number of fronts:

In order to follow (move along the course of) a journey they may:

1. The need to have someone drive them and or share the driving on a long trip due to fatigue and being a danger on the road if they hold a licence.

2. Assistance when negotiating steps and escalators on the Underground if they cross London. This can be from a traveling companion or staff member

3. Assistance at railway stations / coach station. Requiring the use of the electric truck at sat Euston to get to their train. I have used this.

4. Assistance carrying cumbersome luggage when using public transport. Many people with ME use sticks for support due to muscle fatigue. It is nigh on impossible to carry luggage and use sticks too all by yourself.

5. Assistance if public transport is disrupted.

There's five to be going on with.

And if the person can't walk more than 50 metres without fatigue surely that emphasises the need for assistance?