DD cancelled but bank paid out and charged

innovate

grumbler wrote: »

No way.
The DD has to be authorised explicitly.
Once again the company simply abused the paperless DD system.
They have no right to reinstate the DD and this is a simple case of the getting refunded both the DD and the charges under the DD guarantee.

Absolute rubbish.

It is perfectly legit for companies to collate varying amounts by DD, without the account holder having to create a new DD mandate when the amount changes.

A great example of varying DD amounts are credit card payments. Imagine the huge uproar if people had to fill in a new DD mandate every month!
Another example is council tax bills. You don't need to fill in a new DD mandate if the bills go up once a year. Nor do you have to do this if your gas or electricity or water become more expensive.



As always, it is the terms and conditions of the service you subscribed to. If they say that amendments can be made by giving sufficient notice, and if the notice is clear, then there is no need to create another DD authorisation.

innovate

kitkat34 wrote: »

Once cancelled the dd is no longer authorised

Do you guys think through what you are saying? How is the insurance company to know whether the account holder wants to continue with the insurance (which will continue unless cancelled) or whether they might have mistakenly deleted the DD instruction?

grumbler

It is perfectly legit to collect using the existing DD that was authorised in the past.
It is perfectly illegitimate to reinstate the cancelled DD without a new authorisation.

They don't need to know. If the DD is cancelled on the bank's side, their attempt to collect the money fails.

The insurance does continue, but the DD doesn't. Resolving this situation is a different question. DD is just one of many ways of paying.

http://www.directdebit.co.uk/DirectDebitExplained/Pages/Cancellingpayments.aspx

Remember that cancelling the Direct Debit simply stops payments from going to the organisation in question. If you carry on receiving the goods or service then you will have to organise an alternative payment method.
...

Money shouldn't be collected from your account after you have cancelled and under the Scheme rules, an organisation would have to obtain your authority to reinstate a cancelled Instruction.

This is perfectly clear, without any ambiguities.

P.S. You owe me an apology for 'rubbish'.

kitkat34

innovate wrote: »

Do you guys think through what you are saying? How is the insurance company to know whether the account holder wants to continue with the insurance (which will continue unless cancelled) or whether they might have mistakenly deleted the DD instruction?

and you should learn more about dd before advising people
go cancel all your dd and see how many of them still get collected it should be none as anyone reputable company will contact to state that its been cancelled and that you need to pay they are not allowed to reinstate it with out your consent and then when they do it will be a new dd and they will send you a new guarantee as they are supposed to

innovate

grumbler wrote: »

The insurance does continue, but the DD doesn't.

You are painting a totally unrealistic picture. Of course, things could work like you are imagining but they don't.

Things work by terms and conditions, and amendments thereto. If the terms and conditions and amendments say that the company can collect the premiums by DD unless the policy holder cancels the policy then the insurance company can collate the premiums by DD for as long as the policy holder hasn't cancelled the policy.

If the company has not received the premiums in a timely manner, you will find that all T&Cs say that the policy has lapsed.

Simple as that.

innovate

grumbler wrote: »

P.S. You owe me an apology for 'rubbish'.

I updated my post to say what you said is absolute rubbish, and I won't apologise because it was.

igaveupnowimback

http://www.bacs.co.uk/Bacs/Businesses/DirectDebit/PayingBy/Pages/Cancelling.aspx

The payment is annual. I will be contacting company ASAP and also checking t&c's. Yes would have been wiser to reject proposed increase, but I thought since I had cancelled at bank the payment would not be processed and the firm would contact me. TBH I was sooo busy and felt they had a cheek almost doubling it, they obviously didn't want the custom. Once this happened, I could see what TSB are saying is at odds with DD rules.

According to those, TSB and the company are wrong. Thanks for all replies.

grumbler

innovate wrote: »

I updated my post to say what you said is absolute rubbish, and I won't apologise because it was.

Basically I just reiterated what http://www.directdebit.co.uk says.

http://www.bacs.co.uk posted above says the same.

Unless you can point out some essential differences, feel free to keep ridiculing yourself by insisting that what they say is absolute rubbish.

kitkat34

igaveupnowimback wrote: »

http://www.bacs.co.uk/Bacs/Businesses/DirectDebit/PayingBy/Pages/Cancelling.aspx

The payment is annual. I will be contacting company ASAP and also checking t&c's. Yes would have been wiser to reject proposed increase, but I thought since I had cancelled at bank the payment would not be processed and the firm would contact me. TBH I was sooo busy and felt they had a cheek almost doubling it, they obviously didn't want the custom. Once this happened, I could see what TSB are saying is at odds with DD rules.

According to those, TSB and the company are wrong. Thanks for all replies.

I would contact your bank and ask them to refund the money as you had cancelled this dd which they should be able to see and ask for a refund of your charges also if they wont then take it further and complain in writing first and if not resolved go to the FOS don't let them get away with this banks want an easy life so they'll have to do al ittle bit of work to reclaim the money well it was there fault in the first place as it should not have been paid. Then let the insurance company know also that you have cancelled payment and you no longer want the insurance.
hth

innovate

You aren't just reiterating what's on official websites. You were saying e.g.

grumbler wrote: »

The DD has to be authorised explicitly.
.

(in the context of increased premiums). Which is absolutely rubbish. You do not have to authorise any new amount "explicitly".

You are bound by the T&Cs that apply to the service you have taken out, and that you accepted when you took out the service. If those T&Cs get amended, you don't always have to explicitly agree to such amendments. It is perfectly common that you are given the opportunity to continue / renew the service with the amended T&Cs by doing absolutely nothing, and that "nothing" includes that you do not have to fill in a new DD form, electronic or paper.

I have given you plenty of examples already were varying / increasing amounts can be legitimately taken by DD. Here's another one- phone bills.

I note you are just ignoring these examples and reality.