MSE News: O2 to hike its prices by 2.7% - can you leave your contract penalty-free?

parrysite

As most of you know I won my battle with O2 and The Ombudsman regarding the mis-selling of 4G. They forced O2 to allow me to upgrade early, and so I upgraded to a 30-day rolling contract and then when I realised I was getting better value for money elsewhere, I ported away from O2.

Nowhere in The Ombudsman's letter did it say that I had to stay with O2 until my contract was up in November. My remaining balance was in credit £4, until I got a letter from O2 saying I owed them £40. As O2's billing system can only show the last bill once you've cancelled your contract, I was seeing my £4 credit from my last bill and not the one that was for a month's worth of my 30 day rolling contract.

They claimed they sent me a letter informing I'd be charged for the remainder of my original contract until November 2014 if I cancelled before then, however this is not the case as I've never received such a letter. I was also able to cancel via phone speaking to a member of the cancellations department, so if I was going to be billed the full amount I find it reasonable to expect them to warn me first!

Fast forward to the beginning of this month and O2 sends me the following emails. (scroll to the bottom upwards to see the original and then my replies to O2)

Josh

I understand the SIM is 4G and it surprises me that you were able to buy a 4G ready phone cheaper – not connected to a contract. Our records confirm you took the simplicity 30 day contract and within four days had ported out of O2.

I’m sorry you didn’t receive the letter, we have evidence to say it was sent the registered address, before the SIM card was ordered which suggests you were aware of the final decision and that it had been put in place. Had the final decision not been actioned, you wouldn’t have been able to order the SIM as you’d still have been ‘mid term on the original contract’.

Again, if you contest the final decision you’ll need to take this up with the Ombudsman.

regards



Liz Jones | Telef!nica UK Limited
Executive Relations
T 0345 330 0683

Telef!nica UK Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority.


From: XXXX
Sent: 02 July 2014 12:37
To: Elizabeth Jones
Subject: Re: O2: In confidence

Liz,

Actually if you check your records I upgraded to a 4g sim only deal as it was much more affordable to buy my own 4g handset and use Simplicity.

So, this did fix my problem as I now have access to 4G.

The sim was received and there was no letter regarding cancellation fees, enclosed. Furthermore the sim that you sent was the wrong sim for my handset and I had to visit an O2 store to get the right kind of sim. From
Start to finish it has been one shambles after another and your attempt and retrospectively applying charges to an already cancelled contract only highlights why I was unhappy with the service you were providing.


Josh

On 2 Jul 2014, at 12:30, Elizabeth Jones <Elizabeth.Jones@telefonica.com> wrote:

Josh

The letter we sent you was attached to this email. It was posted to you at the address listed on your O2 account, the same address you received your new SIM card at. We also sent it to the Ombudsman.

The charges will remain and are valid as they formed part of the contract in question.

If they remain unpaid it will affect your credit file.

If you have any concerns, you’ll need to speak to the Ombudsman, as I understand, they believed you wanted to upgrade early so you could get a 4G phone. Upgrading to Simplicity does not fix the issue you initially complained about.

Kind regards



Liz Jones | Telef!nica UK Limited
Executive Relations
T 0345 330 0683

Telef!nica UK Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority.



Sent: 02 July 2014 12:24
To: Elizabeth Jones
Subject: Re: O2: In confidence

Liz,

I did not receive any correspondence from yourselves and in any case I have followed what the Ombudsman has instructed, that you would allow me to upgrade to a new contract.

The new contract's 30 day term meant that I could cancel after giving 30 days notice of my cancellation. I have paid this final bill after your inadequate online billing system showed I was in credit £4.00 despite owing approximately £44.00. I have spoken to a member of staff who apologised for the error, and I have paid in full.

As I have followed the ombudsman's instructions, which did not state that I would receive any fees for terminating early, but simply said you would remove the contract term which would allow me to upgrade early, I do not see how you can then retrospectively apply fees when I have fulfilled the terms and conditions of my 30 day contract by giving you adequate notice of disconnection.

Josh

On 2 Jul 2014, at 12:06, Elizabeth Jones <Elizabeth.Jones@telefonica.com> wrote:

Dear Josh

We note that the instruction set out by the Ombudsman was to bring forward the contract you were disputing - to enable you to upgrade early.

The letter we sent specifically says we’d charge you for the remaining months if you chose to disconnect: ‘If you disconnect then the full termination fee will be payable – the remainder of the contract term until 9 November 2014’.

We’re clear here that the contract term in discussion runs until 9 November 2014.

If you’d prefer, we can take payments in two instalments.

Kind regards



Liz Jones | Telef!nica UK Limited
Executive Relations
T 0345 330 0683

Telef!nica UK Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority.


From: XXXX
Sent: 02 July 2014 12:02
To: Elizabeth Jones
Subject: Re: O2: In confidence

Dear Elizabeth,

As I spoke over the phone to cancel my new contract, I assumed I would have been warned if it was not something I could do.

Furthermore, as I did upgrade to a 30-day rolling contract and cancelled my NEW contract, I do not believe this falls outside of the guidelines sent by the ombudsman which did not say I couldn't do this. I do believe I have acted within the guidance of the ombudsman.

Josh

On 2 Jul 2014, at 11:48, Elizabeth Jones <Elizabeth.Jones@telefonica.com> wrote:

Dear XXXX

We recently wrote to you on 8 May 2014 about the final decision of the Ombudsman.

A copy of the letter is attached, this was also sent to the Ombudsman.

As outlined, we brought forward the eligibility of your account to enable you to upgrade early with us. We also advised you if you disconnected the account you’d still be liable for the remaining months of the contract.

On 14 May 2014 you ported our of O2. We’ve charged the O2 account with £122.40 which is the amount of line rental you were paying on the contract you disputed with the Ombudsman. This figure is for the final five months of your original contract with us which expires on 9 November 2014. Please make arrangements to pay this as soon as possible.

If you’ve got any questions, please get in touch with the Ombudsman.

Kind regards



Liz Jones | Telef!nica UK Limited

parrysite

What is everyone's take on the above? I have not paid and don't intend to but do you think I am liable to pay up?

ChilliP2012

Not too sure to be fair. Maybe RandomCurve will take a look and give his opinion when he has time.

On a better note, following my email to the Slough CC. The District Judge has re-instated the claim of his own accord. The hearing will take place on 28th November 2014 at 2:00pm. However, the judge has also said the case is suitable for mediation. So on that basis I will try again to mediate. However, I won't hold my breath. Still it's good to see that the District Judge has made to correct decision and I'm happy at that and would also suggest to me that my new PoC suggest I have good grounds to claim.

RandomCurve

parrysite wrote: »

What is everyone's take on the above? I have not paid and don't intend to but do you think I am liable to pay up?

I'm not sure either.
If the decision was that you could move to any contract - and you moved to a 30 day rolling contract then I would argue that the original 24 month contract no longer exists and under the new contract you can leave when you want.


If the ruling said that you could move to any other contact, but would be bound by the same tie-in period then you would need to pay up.


On the EE price rise cancellation victories the Ombudsman awarded "back dated" penalty cancellation, and EE have said that back dated just means the date the at the contract is cancelled, and there is no ruling that they have to refund the sums taken from the backdated time (April) to now (August) - and CISAS (The Ombudsman) has been agreeing with EE that they don't need to refund the sums taken.
The reason I mention this here is that you need to read the decision carefully and ensure that you can spin it to suit your situation. So if the Ombudsman has not specifically stated that you must stick to the original tie-in period then I would tell O2 to get lost!

Mikmonken

parrysite wrote: »

What is everyone's take on the above? I have not paid and don't intend to but do you think I am liable to pay up?

They say they have evidence that you received this information, which must mean it was sent via royal mail signed for or recorded delivery.

I'd reiterate you never received the letter stating their cancellation terms, ask them to resend it along with the "Evidence" they say they have that you received it.

and take it from there.

what you appear to have done though is signed up to the 24 month rolling 30 day contract (sic) which probably in terms of the phone company means it entitles them to gee you monthly pay rise in line with PRI or which ever matrix provides the highest possible price rise.

parrysite

This is a complicated process so apologies for the long post but basically what happened is:

I took out a 24 month contract in November 2012, due to expire in October 2014. I was promised I could pay £5 a month extra for 4g when it is released. 4g is released on O2, and a few months later I attempt to upgrade and I'm told my phone doesn't support it. I took it up with the store manager who apologised but did nothing else. Not long after they increased prices and this prompted me to take up my 4g complaint with The Ombudsman. The Ombudsman agreed with my complaint and the resolution was agreed that they remove the term of my contract, allowing me to upgrade early without penalty. I upgraded to a £30p/m contract with 4G, and bought a handset outright to save myself the money of a contract. I then got a much better deal on a 4G contract with EE so ported my number away from O2, gave them 30 days notice and cancelled the new 30-day contract over the phone. There was a problem with payment (their online system showed me £4 in credit when actually I owed them £48!!!) a few days after I paid the full amount I received an e-mail (The e-mail thread being the one I posted earlier up in this thread) saying I owed them £122 for the cancellation of my contract as they apparently told me I would incur this charge if I left O2 before the expiry date of my original 24 month contract. I did not receive this letter. They say it was sent out at the same time as my SIM card, which in any case was 30 days after I received the Ombudsman ruling so I was not aware of it when I accepted the Ombudsmans terms (which are posted below.)

Mikmonken wrote: »

what you appear to have done though is signed up to the 24 month rolling 30 day contract (sic) which probably in terms of the phone company means it entitles them to gee you monthly pay rise in line with PRI or which ever matrix provides the highest possible price rise.

Nope, what happened is that the price rise made me complain to O2 about a number of problems: I was mis sold 4G and having previously tried to get a refund for this, the price rises pushed me to take my complaint further and the ombudsman ruled that O2 should remove the 24-month term of my contract (which expires this November) and allow me to upgrade earlier than what *should* have been the end date of my contract, as long as the upgrade was to O2 and not another service provider.

I upgraded my contract to a 30 day rolling contract, and then gave them 30 days notice to cancel the 30-day rolling contract.

I called up to do this, paid my cancellation fee of one month's worth of contract and ported my number to EE. Noone at any point warned me that I would be billed later for the original cancellation fee of my monthly fee from original contract until November.

They said that they sent me a letter telling me this, I have never received such a letter and so it cannot have been sent recorded or signed for delivery.

Here is the copy of the ombudsman's decision:

Dear Mr Parry

YOUR COMPLAINT ABOUT O2

Please find below a summary of the proposals agreed by you and O2, in full and final resolution

of your complaint:

• confirm the contract term has been removed, allowing you to upgrade your O2 contract without

penalty.

O2 should provide the remedy within 28 days from the date of this letter.

The Ombudsman is pleased there is a satisfactory outcome to this case.

Yours sincerely[/QUOTE

RandomCurve

parrysite wrote: »

Dear Mr Parry

YOUR COMPLAINT ABOUT O2

Please find below a summary of the proposals agreed by you and O2, in full and final resolution

of your complaint:

• confirm the contract term has been removed, allowing you to upgrade your O2 contract without

penalty.

O2 should provide the remedy within 28 days from the date of this letter.

The Ombudsman is pleased there is a satisfactory outcome to this case.

Yours sincerely[/QUOTE

If that is the extent of the decision then you complied by upgrading to a 30 day contract with O2 - the old contract is then ended, and is irrelevant.
That is how I see it anyway.

ChilliP2012

Exactly how I see that. If they try anything on, point them in the direction of the ombudsman's decision and that you complied fully with what the ombudsman suggested as a resolution and what O2 have agreed to.

Mikmonken

parrysite wrote: »

They said that they sent me a letter telling me this, I have never received such a letter and so it cannot have been sent recorded or signed for delivery.

This is my point, how can they have evidence that you received the letter if it wasn't sent recorded delivery, By having you're correct address doesn't provide evidence that they send a letter. It's a flaw in their defence really.

Sorry was being a tad facetious with my 24 month 30 day rolling contract it was an exaggeration on the Mobile phone companies disregard for their own T&C's

parrysite

Mikmonken wrote: »

This is my point, how can they have evidence that you received the letter if it wasn't sent recorded delivery, By having you're correct address doesn't provide evidence that they send a letter. It's a flaw in their defence really.

Sorry was being a tad facetious with my 24 month 30 day rolling contract it was an exaggeration on the Mobile phone companies disregard for their own T&C's

I thought you were referring to their supposed 'rolling' 12 month contracts whereby you enter into a 12 month contract but provided you give 30 days notice you can cancel it on the stipulation you upgrade to a 24 month O2 contract.

The one I signed up for was simply a Simplicity (scoff) 30 day rolling contract.

Since I contact the ombudsman on the 2nd of July I've not heard anything from O2 or the Ombudsman.