Not Another Fluffy/hairy Savings Diary

bowlhead99

I can see where Le Loup is coming from. I am also one of those people that doesn't normally read diary threads, but before you dismiss my comment with "well if you don't like the diary threads don't read the diary threads, duh", please hear me out.

An internet forum is ultimately whatever its contributors want it to be.

If most people want to be a fly on the wall watching others succeed and fail at saving every day or week, and providing supportive words and praises as they go, then thats what the forum will mostly be.

If most people instead want it to be an information sharing / knowledge-base forum, to discuss and debate what type of savings or investment products or suppliers out of the myriad of choices are suitable for their needs this month or this decade in terms of rates of returns, costs, hassle, risks etc; discussing current promotions or rule changes by providers and with aspects of the more specialised consultancy that sits on other subforums (tax / pension wrappers) - then that's what this forum would mostly be.

I sit in the second camp, but recognise that to an extent, these very different types of threads can sit on the same forum community because the fly on the wall 'look at what I'm doing this weekend compared to last weekend, please congratulate or critique me' threads can act as case studies for someone to watch someone else putting into practice what they have seen or heard elsewhere and share ideas.

However, arguably we don't need a huge number of these 'case studies' at any one time to learn from.

Undoubtably, depending on your personality type, your state of mind and savings morale may improve by telling everyone you saved £25 this week or £1500 this month and basking in the admiration; or by the fear that others are expecting you to report positive news and so you must try not to waver in your efforts.

Others may get their kicks from suggesting a way you could have instead saved £30 or £1505 by changing banks or buying cheaper teabags; and others are just there to enjoy the mutual love-in or virtual circle-jerk when they saved just as much as the OP of that diary thread in a particular week.

So sure, they do some good. And others can skip past. But as the diaryfans' number increase from one to five to ten to fifty concurrent diary threads, the rest have to keep skipping further and faster. The diaries will increase because the forum becomes known as the place to post your savings diary and tell the world you saved £50 this week while bringing up 11 kids, or you blew £300 of your paypacket down the casino and kebab shop and still saved £1000 this month because you live with your mum who makes you a packed lunch every workday.

You could post on a personal blog or on twitter but may not get a big audience without a real interesting hook or marketing / promotions budget. Whereas at MSE, there's a ready-made audience of hundreds of thousands of subcribers who also like to save a few pennies here and there. So people come and post their stories here. No doubt there is demand for it.

But, for a metaphor, if you look at TV channels it's the same. Fly on the wall, documentary/mockumentary stars are the new celebs and watched (either in adoration or in mock horror or actual horror) by millions.

MTV music television is no longer the place for music, but for watching what the 16-year-old-and-pregnant reality-TV gang did this week. Channel 4 still has quizzes, alternative comedy, the arts, news and documentaries and much of the other stuff it was created for, but also now 60+ reality shows from Made in Chelsea and Desperate Scousewives, to Real Housewives of New Jersey and Wife Swap USA. Meanwhile the people that don't like it are told to go and watch a different channel, because lowest-common-denominator 'reality' stuff is in more demand than intelligent documentaries and politics.

So you could perhaps forgive the mainstream viewership of C4, if they had seen it coming, for suggesting in the early days that the fly-on-the wall diary stuff could kindly go sit somewhere else, or somehow join in the one or two or three or five programmes already existing on the channel rather than creating 50 more.

By that logic you could perhaps forgive Le Loup here, if he/she were to point out that, for example, the Debt Free Wannabe and Debt Free Diaries have literally 100,000+ threads and 4,000,000+ posts all on the subject of how to save from your income or minimise your expenses to reduce your overall debt mountain and how people are currently getting on with that.

Or the 200k+ posts on another board from from Mortgage Free Wannabees, who would perhaps be on those same boards but instead of having mostly unsecured debts, they have mostly cleared those debts and have positive numbers in the current account. So their new goal is to start saving or continue to save from their income, or minimise expenses, to put more aside to clear a mortgage quicker, either directly into the mortgage or into savings or investments now and the mortgage later. It's all the same concepts with a slightly different angle. But MFW is a dedicated place for them to hang out, completely separate from the mortgage board which is about getting a mortgage, or the savings board which is about where best to save or invest.

Extend the forum structure to follow that concept, and people that just want to tell us how much they have saved and invested against their goals, this particular week/month/year (or failed to save and invest against their goals, this particular week/month/year), should probably be in a dedicated place to talk amongst themselves which people can go and hang out in if they want that sort of thing.

Sure, we can cohabit but if there is a growing niche that wants to blog about how they are doing, why not give them a dedicated place to do it.

I started this thread because was trying to be sensible.
This place is not Facebook.
This place is not a blog.
This place is not an agony column.
This place is not a lonely hearts hangout.
This place is not for care in the community.
It's a place to post sensible questions and answers to sensible problems about savings and investments.

This place is not Your house
This place is not your world
You are NOT the boss
You are Incredibly rude

Feel free to make a comment about sub boards but don't insult other posters who write these diaries

The fact you had to start a thread to complain about threads you do not read is just rude! get over yourself

The way to find out what people want is to ask them or to let them speak their minds.

OP thinks the forum will be more interesting and be populated by people with higher quality posts, with perhaps better insight and better answers to questions if it is not diluted with 'how much I saved today' posts. Some people don't think it would make a difference; some people might think it would make a difference but can't be bothered saying so; others don't care one way or another.

Some see the suggestion that a new forum is created because one person doesn't like one type of thread, as an assault on freedom of speech and egotistical. I think it's completely grounded in common sense if not perhaps conveyed in the most tactful way. Playing devil's advocate, it's an assault on freedom of speech to say people must always look for the most tactful way to say something, and it is egotistical to create a public diary thread that is all about what you did today.

I am not too bothered whether the fluffy congratulate/ commiserate/ massage my ego/ how much did we save today threads stay here, and serious debate moves to a different board - or the serious stuff stays here and the diaries move somewhere else. As long as it is clear where we should all go to get what we like. There seems enough space for everyone but I'm very glad for example that 'debate the economy' or the technicalities of pension transfers are is separate from saving investing generally even though there are cross-references.

If you go to any successful special interest forums, there is merit in keeping threads like 'how far did you run today' away from 'what brand of gym or store offers X product or service'. Or 'what's a reasonable price to pay for ABC football boots and how is their reliability and performance against XYZ boots' away from 'how many goals have you scored this season'.

Apologies for the lengthy post. Short version - if you don't agree with Le Loup's views about whether certain types of posts should be allowed or are relevant to the general spirit of the forum, then perhaps the melting pot isn't working and friction may be caused. So isn't that a PERFECT reason to have different types of posts in different places with their own user base, ethos, cultures and identities?
:beer:

People can then partcipate in multiple communities respecting the rules and standards of those communities. If there is already 20 sub-boards within "Pure Money" it doesn't hurt to have 21, adding 'wanna save or invest' to 'wanna pay off debt' and 'wanna pay off mortgage'?

le_loup

Beautifully put bowlhead and I love the Channel 4 comparison.
If my typing skills were better I may have said something very similar.
To emmab, I'm sorry that I offended you with my poor sense of humor.

badger09

Excellent post bowlhead (as usual :A)

ColdIron

Thank you bowlhead for your insight into the changing nature of MTV music television, who knew?

emmab2001

I am sorry for throwing my toys out of the pram!

I need to stop late night posting!!

Please don't get me wrong I do agree a sub board is a good idea I just don't agree with insulting/mocking or "having a laugh" at other posters expense who write, read or find motivation in them

Jegersmart

bowlhead99 wrote: »

I can see where Le Loup is coming from. I am also one of those people that doesn't normally read diary threads, but before you dismiss my comment with "well if you don't like the diary threads don't read the diary threads, duh", please hear me out.

An internet forum is ultimately whatever its contributors want it to be.

If most people want to be a fly on the wall watching others succeed and fail at saving every day or week, and providing supportive words and praises as they go, then thats what the forum will mostly be.

If most people instead want it to be an information sharing / knowledge-base forum, to discuss and debate what type of savings or investment products or suppliers out of the myriad of choices are suitable for their needs this month or this decade in terms of rates of returns, costs, hassle, risks etc; discussing current promotions or rule changes by providers and with aspects of the more specialised consultancy that sits on other subforums (tax / pension wrappers) - then that's what this forum would mostly be.

I sit in the second camp, but recognise that to an extent, these very different types of threads can sit on the same forum community because the fly on the wall 'look at what I'm doing this weekend compared to last weekend, please congratulate or critique me' threads can act as case studies for someone to watch someone else putting into practice what they have seen or heard elsewhere and share ideas.

However, arguably we don't need a huge number of these 'case studies' at any one time to learn from.

Undoubtably, depending on your personality type, your state of mind and savings morale may improve by telling everyone you saved £25 this week or £1500 this month and basking in the admiration; or by the fear that others are expecting you to report positive news and so you must try not to waver in your efforts.

Others may get their kicks from suggesting a way you could have instead saved £30 or £1505 by changing banks or buying cheaper teabags; and others are just there to enjoy the mutual love-in or virtual circle-jerk when they saved just as much as the OP of that diary thread in a particular week.

So sure, they do some good. And others can skip past. But as the diaryfans' number increase from one to five to ten to fifty concurrent diary threads, the rest have to keep skipping further and faster. The diaries will increase because the forum becomes known as the place to post your savings diary and tell the world you saved £50 this week while bringing up 11 kids, or you blew £300 of your paypacket down the casino and kebab shop and still saved £1000 this month because you live with your mum who makes you a packed lunch every workday.

You could post on a personal blog or on twitter but may not get a big audience without a real interesting hook or marketing / promotions budget. Whereas at MSE, there's a ready-made audience of hundreds of thousands of subcribers who also like to save a few pennies here and there. So people come and post their stories here. No doubt there is demand for it.

But, for a metaphor, if you look at TV channels it's the same. Fly on the wall, documentary/mockumentary stars are the new celebs and watched (either in adoration or in mock horror or actual horror) by millions.

MTV music television is no longer the place for music, but for watching what the 16-year-old-and-pregnant reality-TV gang did this week. Channel 4 still has quizzes, alternative comedy, the arts, news and documentaries and much of the other stuff it was created for, but also now 60+ reality shows from Made in Chelsea and Desperate Scousewives, to Real Housewives of New Jersey and Wife Swap USA. Meanwhile the people that don't like it are told to go and watch a different channel, because lowest-common-denominator 'reality' stuff is in more demand than intelligent documentaries and politics.

So you could perhaps forgive the mainstream viewership of C4, if they had seen it coming, for suggesting in the early days that the fly-on-the wall diary stuff could kindly go sit somewhere else, or somehow join in the one or two or three or five programmes already existing on the channel rather than creating 50 more.

By that logic you could perhaps forgive Le Loup here, if he/she were to point out that, for example, the Debt Free Wannabe and Debt Free Diaries have literally 100,000+ threads and 4,000,000+ posts all on the subject of how to save from your income or minimise your expenses to reduce your overall debt mountain and how people are currently getting on with that.

Or the 200k+ posts on another board from from Mortgage Free Wannabees, who would perhaps be on those same boards but instead of having mostly unsecured debts, they have mostly cleared those debts and have positive numbers in the current account. So their new goal is to start saving or continue to save from their income, or minimise expenses, to put more aside to clear a mortgage quicker, either directly into the mortgage or into savings or investments now and the mortgage later. It's all the same concepts with a slightly different angle. But MFW is a dedicated place for them to hang out, completely separate from the mortgage board which is about getting a mortgage, or the savings board which is about where best to save or invest.

Extend the forum structure to follow that concept, and people that just want to tell us how much they have saved and invested against their goals, this particular week/month/year (or failed to save and invest against their goals, this particular week/month/year), should probably be in a dedicated place to talk amongst themselves which people can go and hang out in if they want that sort of thing.

Sure, we can cohabit but if there is a growing niche that wants to blog about how they are doing, why not give them a dedicated place to do it.
The way to find out what people want is to ask them or to let them speak their minds.

OP thinks the forum will be more interesting and be populated by people with higher quality posts, with perhaps better insight and better answers to questions if it is not diluted with 'how much I saved today' posts. Some people don't think it would make a difference; some people might think it would make a difference but can't be bothered saying so; others don't care one way or another.

Some see the suggestion that a new forum is created because one person doesn't like one type of thread, as an assault on freedom of speech and egotistical. I think it's completely grounded in common sense if not perhaps conveyed in the most tactful way. Playing devil's advocate, it's an assault on freedom of speech to say people must always look for the most tactful way to say something, and it is egotistical to create a public diary thread that is all about what you did today.

I am not too bothered whether the fluffy congratulate/ commiserate/ massage my ego/ how much did we save today threads stay here, and serious debate moves to a different board - or the serious stuff stays here and the diaries move somewhere else. As long as it is clear where we should all go to get what we like. There seems enough space for everyone but I'm very glad for example that 'debate the economy' or the technicalities of pension transfers are is separate from saving investing generally even though there are cross-references.

If you go to any successful special interest forums, there is merit in keeping threads like 'how far did you run today' away from 'what brand of gym or store offers X product or service'. Or 'what's a reasonable price to pay for ABC football boots and how is their reliability and performance against XYZ boots' away from 'how many goals have you scored this season'.

Apologies for the lengthy post. Short version - if you don't agree with Le Loup's views about whether certain types of posts should be allowed or are relevant to the general spirit of the forum, then perhaps the melting pot isn't working and friction may be caused. So isn't that a PERFECT reason to have different types of posts in different places with their own user base, ethos, cultures and identities?
:beer:

People can then partcipate in multiple communities respecting the rules and standards of those communities. If there is already 20 sub-boards within "Pure Money" it doesn't hurt to have 21, adding 'wanna save or invest' to 'wanna pay off debt' and 'wanna pay off mortgage'?

Is it me or is it ironic that your single post is longer than some of the complete savings diaries I have seen....?

J

bowlhead99

Well if you don't wanna read it you can always just skip past, right...

Point taken, brevity is not my strong suit and its amazing how much I can ramble when posting while travelling at funny hours or timezones.

Yet if you caught me off guard I would say without a hint of self recognition that I don't see the point in those keyboard warrior types who spend endless time arguing inconsequential stuff with anonymous forumites.

xkcd 386 refers...