Leaving HL without transfer charges

ffacoffipawb

afwone wrote: »

Well done for getting the right result in the end. Seems that you need to complain till you are blue in the face with this company.

Mind you, they do seem to be addressing your complaints faster than they are mine. So far I only have a secure message telling me to go whistle...

Tell them you are going to the Ombudsman.

I rang them (the Ombudsman that is, not HL) last night and posted them the form. I will ring them tonight to update them.


HL are doing themselves more harm by digging in and then changing their mind. Like the investment trust fiasco. Heads should roll.

nepim

Last night I sent H-L a secure message....Today they agreed if I stop to the 1st of March and check there new charges out, they not charge me the exit fees if I leave then! That's a saving of £275 for me! Worth waiting 3 weeks for me I guess.


Just wish they match interactive investor fix charging!

organic_wanabe

Well done to all you guys who are managing to get a positive response from HL, though I am appalled that all customers are not being treated in the same manner. Originally I had thought that DH and I would probably stay with them as we had been with them since 2002 and were likely to see some overall cost benefit. However, after hearing what they had to say on Moneybox I went right off them and they now compound my dim view on a regular basis.

I have around £125k with them in a Vantage S&S ISA/S&S ISA3 (and I have now asked that these be combined which will get rid of two lines of stock!) and a Fund & Share Account containing Royal Mail. My holdings are mainly in funds and for transfer purposes it will work out at about 9 or 10 lines of stock. DH is in a similar position with around £95k. We are both in receipt of final salary pensions so don't have SIPPS and we don't really need to dip into our 'retirement savings' much. We don't trade regularly but might start investing our ISA allowance in monthly saving to ITs, now that Cash ISA rates have hit rock bottom. (We have roughly the same amount in various cash accounts as we have in S&S/Funds - too much I know but we are getting about 3% gross for the moment.)

I am swithering between Fidelity and II but am totally confused:

Fidelity - I like their post RDR simple structure and the fact that they are claiming 0.35% with no extras as opposed to HL's 0.45%. However, not much is said about them on this forum. If we wished we could advantage of their Wealth Service - well provided that we topped DH up to over £100k but this could be easily done. However, I am not sure whether or not it would be useful - again not much seems to be said about it online. Fidelity would cover all our HL Exit Charges but are by no means the cheapest going charge-wise. On the plus side, DS started working there 6 months ago as an Investment Graduate so I might, in some small way, be contributing to the firm's success and help keep my son employed.

II - It is great that they will allow us to combine our accounts and only charge us £80 p.a. (plus some other charges which all seem at first glance to be cheaper than HL). It is a shame that the trading credit given, equaling in value to the £80 annual charge, is only for the Master account and can't be split between the two. Probably not a problem for most people but we are unlikely to trade much. Still not a problem for the first year as each of us would have the Commission Credit transfer of up to £120 (spread over 4 quarters). The cashback of £10 per line of stock (max. £120 each) would not cover the HL Exit Charges, The big down side is that when I go on to the II 'Community & Discussion' forum, clients always seem to be complaining.

So what to do? I am trying to sort things out in my mind and wondered whether anyone can think of anything that I have missed? My mind is working along the lines of 'Why not move everything to Fidelity as they will pay all the transfer charges. If it doesn't work out after a year or so then take advantage of the fact that they say there is no exit fee for moving to another platform.'

Sorry if I have bored everyone, I am trying to clarify the pros and cons for me between Fidelity and II. After much consideration I have decided to rule out the other platforms as I am already confused enough!

Apologies if I have posted in the wrong place but I suppose at the back of my mind I am still wondering whether we are in a position to threaten HL with FSA/OFT. So far all I have done is phone them to say that if they wanted to save costs, instead of charging me for twice-yearly paper statements etc. they could stop sending me monthly Investment Times with their latest 'puff' and offering Prize Draws with £100,000 of prizes.

naedanger

organic_wanabe wrote: »

I suppose at the back of my mind I am still wondering whether we are in a position to threaten HL with FSA/OFT.

I think it depends on what you want them to do. If you want them to continue administering your accounts on their current charges (or any terms other than those they are proposing) then I don't think the FCA or OFT will help. However if you want to exit at no charge then I think you will get help, but from HL themselves who will cave in if you complain to the end of their complaints process. (If they don't then FOS are likely to help.)

(Sorry I can't help on your choice of platform. My own holdings are in shares and in passive funds so the comparison is straightforward for me.)

ffacoffipawb

darren72 wrote: »

Are you going to AJ Bell directly, or through one of the cheaper companies they manage SIPP's for (ie, iweb, Halifax) ?

Presumably this was aimed at me.


I already have a SIPP with SIPPDEAL (since 2007) so I am just merging the HL one with its big brother.


No funds, all investment trusts.


Given that I am above the SIPPDEAL charges cap of £100 p.a. , the HL monies will not cost anything extra.

ffacoffipawb

naedanger wrote: »

I think it depends on what you want them to do. If you want them to continue administering your accounts on their current charges (or any terms other than those they are proposing) then I don't think the FCA or OFT will help. However if you want to exit at no charge then I think you will get help, but from HL themselves who will cave in if you complain to the end of their complaints process. (If they don't then FOS are likely to help.)

(Sorry I can't help on your choice of platform. My own holdings are in shares and in passive funds so the comparison is straightforward for me.)

Are you off to AJ Bell Youinvest?

juliamarsh

organic_wanabe wrote: »

Well done to all you guys who are managing to get a positive response from HL, though I am appalled that all customers are not being treated in the same manner. Originally I had thought that DH and I would probably stay with them as we had been with them since 2002 and were likely to see some overall cost benefit. However, after hearing what they had to say on Moneybox I went right off them and they now compound my dim view on a regular basis.

I have around £125k with them in a Vantage S&S ISA/S&S ISA3 (and I have now asked that these be combined which will get rid of two lines of stock!) and a Fund & Share Account containing Royal Mail. My holdings are mainly in funds and for transfer purposes it will work out at about 9 or 10 lines of stock. DH is in a similar position with around £95k. We are both in receipt of final salary pensions so don't have SIPPS and we don't really need to dip into our 'retirement savings' much. We don't trade regularly but might start investing our ISA allowance in monthly saving to ITs, now that Cash ISA rates have hit rock bottom. (We have roughly the same amount in various cash accounts as we have in S&S/Funds - too much I know but we are getting about 3% gross for the moment.)

I am swithering between Fidelity and II but am totally confused:

Fidelity - I like their post RDR simple structure and the fact that they are claiming 0.35% with no extras as opposed to HL's 0.45%. However, not much is said about them on this forum. If we wished we could advantage of their Wealth Service - well provided that we topped DH up to over £100k but this could be easily done. However, I am not sure whether or not it would be useful - again not much seems to be said about it online. Fidelity would cover all our HL Exit Charges but are by no means the cheapest going charge-wise. On the plus side, DS started working there 6 months ago as an Investment Graduate so I might, in some small way, be contributing to the firm's success and help keep my son employed.

II - It is great that they will allow us to combine our accounts and only charge us £80 p.a. (plus some other charges which all seem at first glance to be cheaper than HL). It is a shame that the trading credit given, equaling in value to the £80 annual charge, is only for the Master account and can't be split between the two. Probably not a problem for most people but we are unlikely to trade much. Still not a problem for the first year as each of us would have the Commission Credit transfer of up to £120 (spread over 4 quarters). The cashback of £10 per line of stock (max. £120 each) would not cover the HL Exit Charges, The big down side is that when I go on to the II 'Community & Discussion' forum, clients always seem to be complaining.

So what to do? I am trying to sort things out in my mind and wondered whether anyone can think of anything that I have missed? My mind is working along the lines of 'Why not move everything to Fidelity as they will pay all the transfer charges. If it doesn't work out after a year or so then take advantage of the fact that they say there is no exit fee for moving to another platform.'

Sorry if I have bored everyone, I am trying to clarify the pros and cons for me between Fidelity and II. After much consideration I have decided to rule out the other platforms as I am already confused enough!

Apologies if I have posted in the wrong place but I suppose at the back of my mind I am still wondering whether we are in a position to threaten HL with FSA/OFT. So far all I have done is phone them to say that if they wanted to save costs, instead of charging me for twice-yearly paper statements etc. they could stop sending me monthly Investment Times with their latest 'puff' and offering Prize Draws with £100,000 of prizes.

First of all, complain in writing to HL and insist that you want a fee free exit or else you will refer the matter to the Ombudsman. There is loads of information on these forums as to how to word the letter, and it seems as if everyone who has done so has been successful and they have backed down. Then the issue about whether Fidelity will cover your exit fees and iii won't will no longer exist and it will be a straight matter of comparing annual charges between Fidelity and Interactive Investor. Assuming that your 125k and your partner's 95k are in funds, totalling 220K, at 0.35% that means Fidelity will charge you £770 per annum and Interactive Investor will charge you £80! Seems like a bit of a no brainer to me - you would have to do an awful lot of £10 trades before Fidelity worked out cheaper! Because you have a sizeable portfolio, and hopefully it will continue to grow, Interactive Investor's flat fee structure must surely be better for you. I know you said you weren't considering any other platforms, but for shares and ITs SVS Securities is very good, they charge no fees at all other than a £5.75 dealing fee and I have found them to be excellent. They offer a share dealing account and an ISA, they just don't trade funds. Best of luck, hope you are able to make a decision that you feel happy with.

juliamarsh

ffacoffipawb wrote: »

Success .....


Dear Mr xxxxx

I can confirm a final response was issued to your complaint yesterday which I believe will address your concerns. I have provided a further copy below.

Mr xxxxx
xxxxx
xxxxx
xxxxx
xxxxx


CWJ/xxxxx
06 February 2014

Dear Mr xxxxx,

I write further to your recent communication in which you expressed your dissatisfaction regarding the introduction of our new Vantage charging structure. I am sorry to learn that you are unhappy with the new charges and that you believe Hargreaves Lansdown are required to permit you to exit your contract without levying our normal exit charges. Hopefully the explanation I have provided below will clarify matters for you.

As our letter of 13th January explained, new regulations introduced by the Financial Conduct Authority come into force on 6th April which dictate how investment platform providers can be remunerated for their services. While the main focus of the changes has been in relation to the impact on funds, the changes in regulations actually apply to all elements of the provision of platform services. The aim of the new regulations is to ensure that a platform presents such products or types of products to its customers on an equal footing and to eradicate cross subsidisation between them. The rules therefore allowed for Hargreaves Lansdown to differentiate - and required us to rebalance - our platform charges for different types of retail investment product, for example active and passive funds.

In terms of whether we are required to allow our clients to exit their contract free of charge as a result of the introduction of our new tariff, I can confirm that we have taken legal advice and conducted extensive research on the subject – consulting the relevant legislation, regulatory guidance and undertakings. Essentially, the rules indicate that provided the changes are made for a valid reason which is specified within the contract and that requisite notice has been provided, there is no requirement for us to waive our exit charges. We believe we have met these criteria and as a result we are entitled to levy our exit charges.

In your case however, we recognise that you feel very strongly on this particular issue. Hargreaves Lansdown have always aimed to be viewed as a fair and reasonable company and as such, given your strength of feeling on the subject, we would be happy as a gesture of goodwill, to waive our transfer charges, for any transfer request received within 1 month of the date of this letter. I trust you will find this to be a reasonable outcome to your complaint.

If however, you think that I have misunderstood anything about your complaint, or you would just find it helpful to go through my findings, please do not hesitate to contact me. I have enclosed a copy of our complaints procedures for your reference.

However, if you are not satisfied with the outcome of your complaint and do not think that contacting me will help; you can refer this matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service. I have enclosed a booklet with further information. It is important to note that any referral to the Financial Ombudsman Service must be made within six months of the date of this letter.

Yours Sincerely



Ciara Ward-Jenkins
Senior Client Services Manager


============================


I have responded thus ....


Thank you for waiving the fees, which is the only sensible and fair thing to do, though getting this waived by yourselves has been like getting teeth pulled.

The transfer is already in hand and the forms from Sippdeal / Youinvest (their form and your own) should be with you any day now.


=============================


They say "Hargreaves Lansdown have always aimed to be viewed as a fair and reasonable company". I'm sorry, but I think they have sullied that reputation. I need to ring the Ombudsman and tell them 'job done'.


EDIT: Strange that this does not tie in with their secure message final response which told me to go whistle. The threat of the Ombudsman is obviously a very strong persuader.

Excellent, so glad you got the result you had been hoping for, I did too today! :beer:

diveleader

After telling by myself and my wife to 'go whistle' via original secure messages, they have come back to us via a new secure message with the following:

1. A flat 0.25% managed fund fee will be applied across account xxxx

2. The managed fund fee will be capped at £500 per annum across all products held under client number xxxxx

They have also agreed to waive transfer charges.

I am still 80% sure I will move due to:
- HL initial arrogance and hiding the increases in 'a reduction in charges' brownwash
- The fact they have changed my contract terms and expect me to start paying them after I elect to refuse them and commence transfer (something I have no control on timewise)

So £500 cap across my Vantage (SIPP/ISA/unwrapped)
The comparison with ii looks to be £144, as if you pay ii SIPP charge you get the ISA and trading account FOC.

Next step will be to confirm individual fund purchase charges, as these may not be the same as HL's discounted ones....

diveleader

Oh wanted to add - well done to MSE and all on here for driving this issue to the (better) outcomes above!!