Planning permission question - permitted dev v planning

ey143

Hi

I am planning quite an extensive extension to my detached property (8m rear single storey), possible loft extension and possible double rear (4m depth).

I am getting quotes for different architects and getting different opinions. I was hoping for the single storey 8m depth by approx 15m width but one architect thinks I will not get permission to extend behind the garage part of the house, only the main part, thereby making it circa. 10m width.

He also suggests that I max out the permitted development first (assuming there is any permitted development rights) and then later apply for additional planning permission once the first project is complete. He says it is sometimes easier to get more out of the temporary permitted development laws than you would under planning (3-4m max compared to 8m under permitted development under the temp rules for a detached). Others are saying do the whole thing under planning permission.

Any suggestions from others who have experience?

Also should it matter than some people might not be a registered architect (protected title with ARB) or not with RIBA but have a diploma? Or another company rep is a director of the company but maybe using one of his own architects. This guy is B.Arch (Hons) Dip Arch MCSD - whatever that is???

Thanks.

ey143

Forgot to also ask - under the temp permitted development rules, to extend to 8m for a detached, can the council reject the application based on neighbours objecting or is permitted development protected from neighbours?

Rodney_Trotter

To be fair a local architect will be able to give more accurate information than anyone on here since you haven't told us where you are. His do we know what your local authority are like?

Doozergirl

Permitted can only be rejected if it affects the amenity of your neighbours.

Ultimately, the simple fact that a neighbour complains should not affect any type of permission, only the raising of a contravention of a valid planning restriction.

Is your garage attached to the house? Is it original to the house or was it built prior to 1944.

If it isn't original to the house then your architect is probably right that the planners will apply their own local rules rather than this new government one but you could go for a certificate of lawful development first on the 8m extension and then subsequently apply for PP once the PD certificate comes through. What part of the work is he suggesting doing separately once one set is finished? Depending on what it is, it could push the build cost up significantly.

His comments suggest he knows your planning authority and their own opinions on things pretty well? Does he have plenty of experience with them? If they are that particular about things, perhaps a planning consultant would be a good idea. Id' really try to grasp exactly why he thinks there might be an issue.

The guy seems to know a lot about architecture with those qualifications. Does he need to be registered with ARB etc? No, you could do the thing by yourself if you wanted so if you trust him, go with him.

ey143

The property is located in Hertfordshire and will fall under Watford council.

The garage is attached to the property and was built in circa. 1986. The house itself was built around 1930.

It was a local architect who told me about maxing out the permitted development first. His fees were very reasonable, about £1,750 but he seems interested in only drawing the plans and submitting to the council and not get involved in any interior design, CAD drawings or project management (though he said he could do some of that at more cost). I just get the "feeling" he wants to draw the plan but I may need more hand holding during the development and want some innovative ideas....he's a nice chap in his 50s. He suggests applying for the additional 5m width by 8m depth behind the garage after the PD is completed (on the 10m width extension) and also for a possible (though unlikely because of cost) 2nd storey build above the single storey extension.

The other guy lives 10 miles away in another borough but has still worked on properties in this area. However, lots of bells and whistles and asking for £10k plus vat...but its not comparing apples with apples as one is offering a lot more than the other.

Please explain to me what a planning consultant is and how expensive they are etc?

Many thanks.

Rodney_Trotter

What do you want the architect to do?

I paid £750 for drawings and submissions.

Doozergirl

Essentially a planning consultant deals with tricky planning policies and councils. You only really need one if the council are likely to refuse what you want.

I have had advice from a planning consultant on our house and his recommendation was to go for a certificate of lawful development for any PD portion of the build. It will take a few weeks. Once that is in, then go for PP to build on the extra.

It would cost a LOT of money to build an 8m long structural wall on the PD extension to only then go and add another extension to the side. It seems a waste.

If Watford have a reputation for being a difficult council to deal with, most architects will already know that. I've had more than one or two rolleyes from professionals when I mention our LA! A lot of councils hold Householder Planning Surgeries where you can discuss ideas with a planning officer for free - best to take pictures of the house with you. You can also go for formal pre-app advice where they will give you an indication of what they might approve. I think building one extension first is trying to kill a potential fly with a cannonball.

Before that, you probably need to decide what it is that you want from the house. Is it budget that is pushing you to decide on loft conversion vs double storey etc? I suggest making a list of what extra rooms or uses you want from these extensions and then work out the best way to achieve that with the architect.

An architect surely has to provide some degree of innovation in design of interior layouts etc? A really lovely builder will do your project management for you. Some will be able to help you with all of it and bring along an architect.

ey143

Rodney,
8x15m single storey rear
Double storey rear
Loft conversion
Remodel the existing property inc removal of several load bearing walls, moving of stairs, new internal rooms in the rear extension
Total change to the front elevation inc gable
Design of double width front door in new centre location

So quite a bit - not quite expecting it to be within £750 but £10k also seems a lot.

Doozergirl.

Some excellent advice from you, thank you.
Yes I was indeed already planning to use the council's free planning consultancy shop.

Do you not need to have completed the PD work after you received the certificate of lawfulness before you apply for planning permission for the rest of the house?

We're being slightly extravagant about out ideas on the basis that we have been told that as we are in a desirable area, spending x will result in an increase in value by which is 2x our build cost. Also we figured it be cheaper to do all this now together rather than years down the line.

What we want is a large open plan living area with kitchen in the 8m extension whilst building a gym/study or play room. What would you estimate the cost of 8m extension and then a separate on on the side after planning is granted for the bit behind he garage. If that added space is part of a utility room or gym then you need a wall anyway albeit no a brick one I suppose.

Thx.

Doozergirl

I can't even guess at that without running the two different options through software as that would calculate the economies of scale for me. Without some form of plan, we don't know what kind of roof, how large the spans are going to be and how much engineering they need and whether you go two storey will affect that greatly. My personal view would be that a two storey extension would create a much more balanced and attractive property for resale.

Have you done this before? There's a user called michaels who has extended his house considerably (two storey) in Herts and is also mid planning application, so he could possibly recommend you a local third architect for comparison.

ey143

Hi

No, I have not done this before. Could you please PM me his contact details and I will give him a call.

On a separate note - going on your comment from earlier, can you actually apply for planning permission when you have a certificate of lawfulness under PD, even though you may not have finished or indeed started it yet? I was a bit confused by your comment / I thought PD work had to be completed first as per the certificate before you apply for planning permission for further work outside of PD?

Doozergirl

ey143 wrote: »

Hi

No, I have not done this before. Could you please PM me his contact details and I will give him a call.

On a separate note - going on your comment from earlier, can you actually apply for planning permission when you have a certificate of lawfulness under PD, even though you may not have finished or indeed started it yet? I was a bit confused by your comment / I thought PD work had to be completed first as per the certificate before you apply for planning permission for further work outside of PD?

I'll ask michaels to come and look at the thread

A planning consulant gave me instructions on what I should do in a similar situation (mine would be a second side extension outside PD). Once I had secured my PD rights with a certificate of lawful development on the back and loft, regardless of whether I built or not, I could then apply for planning permission and the planners could not remove those permitted development rights.

I paid an awful lot of money for that advice and he is a very qualified man, so while I haven't gone ahead with that plan yet and don't have direct experience, I do hope he was correct!