Paypal money reversal by buyer

windswept

If the OP, or soolin would care to pm me with the buyer id, I will get it looked at on the ebay business board.

soolin

lukebav1982 wrote: »

When i type in the recorded delivery reference number online it is currently saying to come back later. Is there any other way that i can find out whether the item has been signed for/delivered?

OK, if it doesn't show as delivered then you would have lost a paypal claim regardless of whether the address was confirmed or not. Without online tracking showing that this phone arrived I would also think any claim via the courts would fail as well as you cannot prove that it was not lost in the post.

In that case your first endeavour should be to get Royal mail to update their online tracking, if you can get them to show online that this item was delivered you probably have a good claim in the courts. If Royal mail will not show delivery then I think you will need to assume that either it has been lost in the post or else that RM have just failed to get a signature, neither of which will assist you in any legal claim.

Recorded is frankly not worth the extra 70p, I've lost count of the threads where people complain that they have had recorded delivery where no signature was obtained.

digerati

lukebav1982 wrote: »

Unfortunatley on further inspection the address supplied by the buyer is unconfirmed. Also after my transaction had been completed on eBay another member has left negative feedback for the buyer along the same lines as my case. It seems like the buyer purchases an expensive item from eBay and immediately pays by Paypal, once he has confirmation that the item has been sent he cancels his Paypal payment. I fear i already know the answer to the following question as the buyer has unconfirmed details on PayPal, but is there any way i can attempt to retrieve my losses?

Looks like you have been scammed via PayPal - a common complaint here and on the eBay forums. Fortunately your PayPal scammer has likely commit a criminal offense under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 - namely Fraud by false representation when they received your goods without payment (since it was refunded without your authority by PayPal).

First - file for a Non-Paying Buyer so you get your eBay FVF refunded. Also file with eBay on the following pages as appropriate: Reporting buyer fraud, Defrauded Sellers and Online Fraud Complaint Reporting Form.

Since there is more than one victim, the Police will be more inclined to investigate as it's seen as a more productive use of their (often) limited resources.

Ring your local Police station and make an appointment to see a CID officer. Don’t frustrate yourself by arguing your case with a desk clerk in reception - they are instructed to dismiss ALL cases of 'fraud' as civil matters. (Fewer 'open' cases look better to the bureaucrats.)

By the way, most UK (including Scottish) Police Stations have at least one specialist CID Officer knowledgeable about online fraud and e-crime (including those perpetrated on eBay and PayPal). Just in case whomever you speak to isn't up to speed with eBay, bring these contact details with you - they will need them to contact eBay UK.

Email: law-enforcement@ebay.com
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/safetycentre/law_enforcement.html
Fax: 0207-681-2389

Come prepared with printed copies of: eBay auction(s), PayPal payment details, all email (with full headers) between you and the scammer or their other victims, and finally notes of any telephone conversations you have had with scammer, PayPal or eBay.

Make it a priority to contact other sellers that are victims of this scammer - check buyer's recent purchases (replace 'scam' with buyer's ID). This way you can pass along their names and details to the Police CID Officer in the buyer's locale investigating your case. Ask other victims to file complaints with their local Police so the CID Officer can quickly see that it isn't an isolated case, but rather a large-scale premeditated fraud meaning the investigation might become a priority.

Hope this helps and Good Luck!

soolin

Digerati whilst this does look very suspicious the OP is seriously disadvantged as he has no proof of a scam as item has apparently not been delivered according to this statement made a few days ago:

When i type in the recorded delivery reference number online it is currently saying to come back later. Is there any other way that i can find out whether the item has been signed for/delivered?

Whilst the item is merely suspected as lost in the post the OP has no recourse, not even the law as this will turn into a dispute between OP and the Royal mail. Obviously once the tracking shows as delivered the situation will be much better.

greeneye

digerati wrote: »

Ring your local Police station and make an appointment to see a CID officer. Don’t frustrate yourself by arguing your case with a desk clerk in reception - they are instructed to dismiss ALL cases of 'fraud' as civil matters. (Fewer 'open' cases look better to the bureaucrats.)

Digerati since this will be deemed as credit card fraud (i.e buyer is claiming they didn't authorise the payment) is it affected by the changes earlier in the year in so much as banks are supposed to deal with all credit card crime and the police no longer act unless instructed to do so by the banks?

Watched a newsnight feature recently where one of the reporters had his credit card used on amazon to buy a £400 mobile phone.
Newsnight had the delivery address and name (an amazon gift address) but the police refused to investigate saying it was down to the banks to pursue the matter. Despite the fact the phone hadn't even been delivered by amazon yet!

Newsnight ascertained that in the previous 3 months in the west midlands (2nd biggest UK police authority) something like 6 cases had been forwarded by the banks to the police.... the banks were just sweeping the rest under the carpet. And they guestimated tens of millions of pounds of CC fraud would have been conducted in the west midlands during that 3 month period.
Newsnight's take on this was that credit card fraud was no longer seen as worth investigating and the green light had been given to fraudsters.

What I didn't quite get was who is going to swallow all this fraud?
In the above case was it Amazon or the bank? I'm assuming it was Amazon as the bank would have charged back on the behalf of their customer.
So if card fraud is pretty much being decriminalised are retailers really just going to sit back and take it?
There's not much little sole traders (ebay or otherwise) can do but are the big boys really just going to except that card fraud will no longer be pursued or prosecuted and write it all off? ....it's probably tax deductable though

digerati

greeneye wrote: »

Digerati since this will be deemed as credit card fraud (i.e buyer is claiming they didn't authorise the payment) is it affected by the changes earlier in the year in so much as banks are supposed to deal with all credit card crime and the police no longer act unless instructed to do so by the banks?

Actually it's hard to know if the PayPal funds were from a bank account or credit card. In any case, the bank and PayPal are unaffected by this fraudster - it's the seller that takes the loss, so therefore they have a case to lay with the Police.

Police do investigate online fraud particularly when it hits multiple victims - which is why I always recommend contacting other victims to strengthen your case. There are some criminal gangs that specialize in ID fraud using skimmed credit/debit card info from certain petrol retailers or high-volume retail outlets.

frivolous_fay

Surely if the funds had come from the bank, there'd be very little chance of reversing them...?