OS Singlies - We Do It Our Way!

lostinrates

LavenderBees wrote: »

I'm not saying that problems don't arise, and unforseen ones at that, of course they do. They do in all walks of life.

But that's not really what I was talking about, personally. What is annoying more than anything else to me is the lack of organisation skills many seem to have (would it really have been impossible to order my back door on time?? - The builder had the bricks/cement/slates etc ready on time) and communication (which can so easily be resolved with just a little thought). I for one would never shoot the messenger for telling me a problem has arisen, providing they follow up with what they are trying to do to resolve it.

What I personally find unforgiveable is a workman who sees it as everyone elses problem he doesn't deliver, is patronising with it, and doesn't make any attempt to rsolve the problem.

Too many of those around .

It's particularly interesting, that in my admittedly small job of a porch being built, that the builder has everything spot on, and he is supported on the business side by his super organised and communicative wife, whereas the joiner is disorganised and defensive before he even starts (it seems he already knows he's not going to deliver so is ready for the complaints), and it seems is not supported by anyone on the organisational side.

I suspect the builder's wife doesn't really know the detail of what her hubby actually does (I may ask her sometime!), but she does certainly know about customer service and communication, and she keeps him right on where he needs to be and what for.

I know which one I'll re-use in future, and which to avoid.....I think the joiner and the electrician must be brothers :rotfl:

Gosh is that the time...I have people to organise . Must fly! Have a good day, All!

Oh yes, there is slack organisation about, but frankly, that hardly seems like a huge pm issue. That just sounds inefficient. And even a pm has problems with inefficient contractors as we have found to our pain.

I interestingly also with joiners. (Over a month late with windows, then complained they had to use oak because they'd not ordered the cheaper hardwood......not my problem:rotfl: and I wasn't paying for it) .


If you are using contractors there is little you can do but keep phoning and pressuring and reminding of the terms of your contract and enforce them. ( After trying softer tactics).

When it boils down to it you are often better waiting for them than you are going back to look for other joiners, getting new sets of quotes, going through drawings again, agreeing contracts.....etc etc etc.

All this time the clock is ticking and money is haemorrhaging out of the gap in the house. .

lostinrates

Money, re lies, we were grateful for them. We took a contractor to court last year. There was a summary judgement in our favour but we were rather hoping the contractor would defend himself, because we had a LOT of evidence.

We keep rather good records of these things..

Singlies, I have memory issues with my neurological condition and so record meetings for my reference. These actually provide very useful resource later, I would recommend this as a course of action to singlies who feel easily shouted down or convinced they might have 'mis remembered' or Mi's understood.

kacie

lostinrates wrote: »

Money, re lies, we were grateful for them. We took a contractor to court last year. There was a summary judgement in our favour but we were rather hoping the contractor would defend himself, because we had a LOT of evidence.

We keep rather good records of these things..

Singlies, I have memory issues with my neurological condition and so record meetings for my reference. These actually provide very useful resource later, I would recommend this as a course of action to singlies who feel easily shouted down or convinced they might have 'mis remembered' or Mi's understood.

What kind of things did you write down, quotes and estimates? or more details?

lostinrates

kacie wrote: »

What kind of things did you write down, quotes and estimates? or more details?

Sorry, tbc, I use a dictaphone.


The whole conversation is recorded. In their words and mine. I can replay it as much as I like.



I then take minutes from the meeting for reference which is what I would usually refer to. ( I also take notes through the meeting otherwise i might lose trak through a meeting ) However, were there ever to be a case of serious dispute or a problem that I am not prepared to swallow, and with a good contractor I have a good relationship there things I will swallow, but in the case of dispute, I can refer to the recordings, and if necessary share them.

Edit: I would add a caution. I am VERY strict with myself NEVER to refer to these for personal issues or petty matters. The only time io have refered to this in my build has been for the matter that has gone to court and to take my minutes on, but they are there if needed. If one feared the might be used for smaller issues then they might end up causing more woe than reassurance IMO.

greenbee

lostinrates wrote: »

If you are using contractors there is little you can do but keep phoning and pressuring and reminding of the terms of your contract and enforce them. ( After trying softer tactics).

When it boils down to it you are often better waiting for them than you are going back to look for other joiners, getting new sets of quotes, going through drawings again, agreeing contracts.....etc etc etc.

Now I think you've got to the root of the problem. How many people are actually drawing up contracts with all these trades?

If the tradesman doesn't have a contract (and you can ask them for a copy of their standard terms and conditions) then you need to find one (unless you have legal knowledge DON'T draw up your own) and request that they use this in conjunction with a detailed quote that sets out what they are going to supply/do and when.

Bear in mind that this might put some of them off though. In some cases you are going to have to work on a trust basis, so DO NOT pay up front (although it is fair enough to pay for materials on delivery IF they have split the quote into labour and materials - and make sure the materials also includes all the guarantee paperwork/instructions/invoices etc that you need), and always reserve say 10% for a week or so afterwards until you're happy that everything is working properly. But when they do a good job, pay promptly.

lostinrates

greenbee wrote: »

Now I think you've got to the root of the problem. How many people are actually drawing up contracts with all these trades?

If the tradesman doesn't have a contract (and you can ask them for a copy of their standard terms and conditions) then you need to find one (unless you have legal knowledge DON'T draw up your own) and request that they use this in conjunction with a detailed quote that sets out what they are going to supply/do and when.

Bear in mind that this might put some of them off though. In some cases you are going to have to work on a trust basis, so DO NOT pay up front (although it is fair enough to pay for materials on delivery IF they have split the quote into labour and materials - and make sure the materials also includes all the guarantee paperwork/instructions/invoices etc that you need), and always reserve say 10% for a week or so afterwards until you're happy that everything is working properly. But when they do a good job, pay promptly.

IME ( which is little) fair retention depends on the job and the nature of work. My builder is an MSEer too. And I have a very good relation ship with them. So I am NOT going to talk in detail about the nature of our contract as I don't think it would be fair.i would expect the same courtesy for them.

A week would be insufficient retention for most of the things we've had done though IMO.

greenbee

lostinrates wrote: »

IME ( which is little) fair retention depends on the job and the nature of work. My builder is an MSEer too. And I have a very good relation ship with them. So I am NOT going to talk in detail about the nature of our contract as I don't think it would be fair.i would expect the same courtesy for them.

A week would be insufficient retention for most of the things we've had done though IMO.

You and your MSEer builder clearly realise that a contract is there for the benefit of BOTH parties. But a lot of people, both providers and customers are put off by them.

lostinrates

greenbee wrote: »

You and your MSEer builder clearly realise that a contract is there for the benefit of BOTH parties. But a lot of people, both providers and customers are put off by them.

Absolutely. Which is a shame. Both parties are protected. There are a huge number of rogue customers who want to complain or avoid paying for things or don't understand and don't want to understand what is or is not a builder's fault or reasonable extra cost.

pollyanna24

Still trying to read through all the pages. Think I am up to page 18th January now, but just thought I would post and then carry on reading!


Iammumtoone – the thing that puts me off decorating as well is the kids. They would get in the way, or they would want to “help” etc. Might wait and see if my dad can do it while they are on their summer holidays. Need to do the hallway, stairs and landing. How do you even do the bit opposite the stairs which is miles up in the air?!

Since I moved into the house 8 years ago (subsequently ex left 3 years ago), I have only decorated the bedroom that I sleep in, the girls’ bedroom (pink of course!) and the front room (which looks a bit bare as I need to put pictures and a clock up).

Re a holiday by myself, blimey I haven’t even thought about that. Would probably just sit at home. I have been on a couple of holidays, but that was to friends’ houses abroad and once to a wedding.

Spirit – re your cat scratching. Im in a similar predictament. I decided that once my kids were old enough to not poop or throw up on my bedroom carpet, I would get a new one. But the cat just seems to like toileting wherever she feels like it, which drives me up the wall! Was using my bed for a while, then if I left any laundry on the floor, she went on it. Now I just keep my bedroom and girls’ bedroom door shut, but the dog likes sleeping on my youngest daughter’s bed, so keeps pushing the door open.

Again, how do you lay a carpet in the bedroom with all the furniture in there? If you say remove the furniture, how would I get a double bed out? Eek!

Rosiepuddingpaws – that’s exactly how my dad did the lino in my girls’ room. Dragged out the old carpet and measured on the patio. Easy to do their room as I was getting rid of their cotbeds and the bunkbeds hadn’t been built yet.

moneyistooshorttomention

pollyanna24 wrote: »

Again, how do you lay a carpet in the bedroom with all the furniture in there? If you say remove the furniture, how would I get a double bed out? Eek!

Answer to that is = you don't. The carpet firm has to deal with the fact that there is still this hefty large item of furniture in the room. They may or may not charge you a bit extra for having a hefty item or two of furniture left in the room they are about to put a new carpet down in. I understand there are possibly one or two (probably massive great chain type) carpet shops that try to refuse to deal with the heavy items of furniture left in rooms scenario but they shouldn't.

Before now...I've been charged a few £s extra for leaving heavy items in the room on the one hand. On the other hand...a firm lined-up for some carpeting in my new home just accepts that's part of the job and wont be charging extra. Someone with the average womans physical strength (or lack of it) isn't expected to do this.

Re your other point about how to deal with decorating in an area with a stairwell involved = you don't. You pay a decorator to do that. They will have the relevant equipment to do the job as safely as possible and its part of the job to do whatever decorating the customer wants in any part of the house they want. Decorating a standard height type room on the other hand is something that the home-owner may or may not decide to do themselves, dependant on circumstances.

I wouldn't dream of trying to remove heavy items of furniture myself OR of trying to decorate a stairwell or the outside of a 2 (or more) storey house.