Clarification on new Tobacco Licensing LAws

Talyn

Hi, I have an enquiry I wonder if anyone can help with. I realise it is more of a trading legislation query rather than financial but I emailed my local council Trading Standards and they weirdly referred me to Citizens Advice? Which is odd o.O
I hoped someone here might have the necessary expertise.
Please note this related to Tobacco laws in Scotland which have diverged a bit form the rest of the uk recently.


I was shopping in my local supermarket in Edinburgh which closes at 9pm. Just as I was walked up to the tobacco kiosk at 9pm the shop tannoy announced that the store had closed. I asked for a packet of rolling cigarette papers and was refused sale as the shop had just stated they were closed and it would be illegal to sell the papers as it is classed as a tobacco product and cannot sell it outwith their opening hours as their licence only covers them within their opening hours.


Is this true? I am perfectly aware of alcohol of being a time-sensitive licenced sale item and regulated between 10am -10pm, but cigarette papers? Are those considered off-sales out of hours?


Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

wealdroam

I think they were just making excuses not to serve you.

You do understand that no shop has to sell you anything... they decide who their customers are.

My guess is that either the sales assistant has been trained incorrectly, or has chosen to blame the law for him/her not wanting to serve you.

unholyangel

Papers are classed as a tobacco product if memory serves but I cant recall there being anything about hours of business. It is the case for alcohol licensing but I don't think its the same for tobacco.

bubblegumcola

There are no time restrictions on what time tobacco and related products can be sold in Scotland. You don't need a licence to sell tobacco. I know some of the supermarkets I go to have their kiosks closed during certain hours but if you ask for an item they will get a member of staff to get what you want. I have to do that in my local Asda if I go in very late at night to do my shopping. You can go to an all night petrol station and be served tobacco, it's just the same.

I suspect it is maybe due to the fact that the shop was closing that they wouldn't serve you? Lots of shop workers don't get paid past closing time maybe they were itching to get out of the door? I guess they can refuse to serve anyone. Isn't the shop offering you the chance to purchase items but they can refuse if they wish?

As a smoker in Scotland I have not come across this problem of not being able to buy ciggies or ciggie papers when I want to buy them, at any time of day.

Talyn

I did suspect that, but this was 'The official company response' from the sales assistant, the supervisor, the security guard and the duty manager (they really wanted me out but I kept escalating it to try and get an answer :rotfl:)


Can a shop honestly, legally refuse to serve you for any reason they see fit?

bubblegumcola

Searched google and found this link, I can't find anything about specific times of day.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0041/00412868.pdf

HTH

Talyn

The key point here is that they said that they were now 'closed' and therefor technically their license to sell tobacco products ceased at that point (but they said it was fine to pay for my groceries). Surely the licence covers 24hrs unless the product is time-restricted like alcohol? Any lawyers out there?

mije1983

Talyn wrote: »

Can a shop honestly, legally refuse to serve you for any reason they see fit?

Yes they can. You make an offer for one of their products but they refuse your offer. As long as they don't refuse you because of your race, religion, any disability etc.

unholyangel

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2010/407/made

(the law requiring retailers who sell tobacco products to register) makes no mention of hours of business either.

bubblegumcola

I think they can. I would want a valid reason if it were me.

I don't think I have refused a sale in a shop, I work in retail, unless somebody was exceptionally cheeky or something was massively wrongly priced. I've refused lots of refunds, no receipt, etc. Get a lot of abuse from people trying to return items that their partner/sister/friend bought on a card and me refusing. "I have the card and I know the PIN...etc, etc" "why can't you do it, I use the card all the time etc"

I do think that for a wee packet of cigarette papers they were a bit ott though by not serving you! Find a different shop to buy your tobacco stuff in with friendlier staff?

mattyprice4004

Talyn wrote: »

Can a shop honestly, legally refuse to serve you for any reason they see fit?

Yeah, why couldn't they? You're in their shop, on their property, and if they don't want to do business with you then they don't have to.