Unfair Dismissal - DIY Employment Tribunal

sniggings

g0liath wrote: »

The case is just over 2 weeks away. I have shown self deprecating Facebook comments using the alleged (but never happened) racist remarks about themselves. It shows the accuser in a different light and I have also pulled apart the process and policies.
The interviewees put words into the interviewers mouths and lead them with loaded questions. It shows they were looking for evidence to try to support anything and ignoring anything that favoured me.
I want to go all the way so it is public and I will be vindicated and compensated. We will wait and see....

be careful you argue on the facts relevant to the case, as a judge will only be able to judge on those, you may show the interviewer was bias but if you fail to show you did not commit gross misconduct then you will probably not win

I'm not sure but arguing that the employer wanted to get rid of you and didn't carry out a fair case but failing to defend against the main charge you may still fail to win, I could be wrong on this tho.

ableandy

The job of the Company will be to ask the court to look at the evidence and ask themselves, was the response of the company the response of a normal employer.

The evidence has to be complete and accurate, you are entitled to call witnesses as long as you have notified the other side, including hostile ones.

In your case, I believe (from the small amount revealed) that the company is unlikely to make you an offer. Why? well you have not said that they did anything wrong procedurally in dismissing you - what you have said is that they believed the other guys interpretation over that of your own.

So how do you win? Well you need witnesses to validate your story, you need evidence (written preferably) that the company wanted rid of you and or they did not fully investigate the matter.

Did a different person hear the appeal as opposed the person who carried out the first disciplinary? Have you had any similar issues / warnings in the last 12 months?

g0liath

ableandy wrote: »

The job of the Company will be to ask the court to look at the evidence and ask themselves, was the response of the company the response of a normal employer.

The evidence has to be complete and accurate, you are entitled to call witnesses as long as you have notified the other side, including hostile ones.

In your case, I believe (from the small amount revealed) that the company is unlikely to make you an offer. Why? well you have not said that they did anything wrong procedurally in dismissing you - what you have said is that they believed the other guys interpretation over that of your own.

So how do you win? Well you need witnesses to validate your story, you need evidence (written preferably) that the company wanted rid of you and or they did not fully investigate the matter.

Did a different person hear the appeal as opposed the person who carried out the first disciplinary? Have you had any similar issues / warnings in the last 12 months?

I have already got them with not providing statements that they relied upon to come to the decision (Again in the appeal). I couldn't defend myself against factually incorrect information and exaggeration (The event described get bigger and bigger at each interview) and there are 4, of which of the last 2 I did not see. There were opportunities by the panel to check these out as they even say this isn't what you said earlier in one of these statements. the excuse is that they were not typed up so they went from hearing to dismissal the next day after interviewing people in between. Also I showed the history in documentation from my last suspension. They have gone back to an unproven event and reinterpreted what happened over 30 months ago and used this to support the main un corroborated allegation. incidentally the person that accused me left just after I was dismissed and the original allegation prior to this was from their manager. I had not lost my job then as I showed they were (Managers) were trying to oust me. but I had a warning that was spent over 15 months ago for the policy breach. The same policy as now but they have referred to me a proven racist in their statement from last time (which I am not). I hope to show they were unsuccessful then and didn't sack because of massive procedure error, untruths and outright attempted constructive dismissal. I was on more money than my supervisors and this was the base element that they wanted my job.
They wanted rid of me and this was a great excuse but didn't count on me fighting back! I should have left originally after I was reinstated but I was about to become a parent and need my job as well as clearing my name. I cant wait for the end as I can name and shame and its a respected company.

g0liath

This is actually helping me. I am focused and the questions are from an outside prospective. I am totally on my own. No rep, only the help of CAB but they are limited to what they can do and internet which has been fantastic http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2008/49.html. This is an amazing resource. Thanks to all. I hope I can help others who have been treated unfairly and show that standing up for yourself is the right thing to do.

g0liath

I am working on my opening and closing statements. Anyone who has done this, please advise best way forward in what the best format might be. I am researching this at the moment.
A request for 2 days has been requested by the respondent, don't know if its necessary but not bothered either way as it costs them more and more. I have spent my fees and am not liable for more as its not vexatious or badly prepared / falling short of acas standards.

uknick

g0liath


Are you sure about a need for an opening statement? At my ET we went straight into cross examination after the judge had conformed why we were there.


I know each Tribunal may do it differently, but just wanted to say this in case you spend a lot of time and effort on something that is not needed.


Closing statement/submission was done.

Takeaway_Addict

g0liath wrote: »

I am working on my opening and closing statements. Anyone who has done this, please advise best way forward in what the best format might be. I am researching this at the moment.
A request for 2 days has been requested by the respondent, don't know if its necessary but not bothered either way as it costs them more and more. I have spent my fees and am not liable for more as its not vexatious or badly prepared / falling short of acas standards.

Just be aware that it might not be costing them any money at all bar a little bit of time. Alot of companies have insurance through employment specialists that will take the case on so their only liability could be the compensation at the end...if any.

Also, they might be fighting on principle as well, not unheard of and could cost more but if they win it gives of a sound message to other employees that 'if you take us to a tribunal we will fight you' which inturn might put people off and thus save them money.

jobbingmusician

g0liath wrote: »

I am working on my opening and closing statements. Anyone who has done this, please advise best way forward in what the best format might be. I am researching this at the moment.
A request for 2 days has been requested by the respondent, don't know if its necessary but not bothered either way as it costs them more and more. I have spent my fees and am not liable for more as its not vexatious or badly prepared / falling short of acas standards.

Search this forum for a thread I started several years ago with the words employment tribunal in the title and read up about bundles.

g0liath

uknick wrote: »

g0liath


Are you sure about a need for an opening statement? At my ET we went straight into cross examination after the judge had conformed why we were there.


I know each Tribunal may do it differently, but just wanted to say this in case you spend a lot of time and effort on something that is not needed.


Closing statement/submission was done.

That's heartening, I have the ET1 that I made originally summarised with details to back this up and a statement to get the important points across.

loveka

I really would avoid presenting the Facebook self depreciating comments as evidence. Someone saying something about themselves is no defence-by which I mean in law for someone else saying it about them. In discrimination cases this is often a stumbling block at a tribunal.

Your best defence is that your employer should have given you feedback about the offence you caused to the individual, not sacked you immediately.

Your employer may have been trying to protect themselves from a possible discrimination /harrassment claim. In civil law, had this person taken the employer to a tribunal for harassment, the burden of proof would be on the employer to prove that the comments were not made. Similarly, the comments do not have to have had a racist intent. It is how they are received by the victim.

You need to concentrate on the facts around the dismissal rather than trying to excuse the comments. In my view, they should have given you a chance. Does your employer run training in diversity or their dignity at work policy? If not you can use this as part of your defence.