Case has been resolved. Thank you to Trans Pennine Express, good customer service

Altarf

yorkie2 wrote: »

As you won't say the route, but we know it was a long journey, then it is very possible that it was one of the Glasgow/Edinburgh <> Manchester services, so very possibly a 6-coach train in which case the Guard may not have been close to what went on, or even aware of it.

A journey of several hours, and the guard didn't walk through the train once?

That would not appear to be very good, especially as these were football fans, so since the details of the game would have been publicised, the train company would have known that there was a strong possibility of fans who had drunk too much travelling.

So would there be a good reason for the guard not making an appearance?

Stigy

Altarf wrote: »

So they don't deal with the ticketing byelaws. Very interesting.

Not usually by enforcing them as such. The extent is usually to sell a ticket, which I suppose is enforcement in a loose sense of the word, but not as it's implied in this thread. They would obviously ask somebody to leave their train too if need be. The thing is, getting directly involved in situations such as this could easily make matter worse, especially as most train crew work by themselves. The correct thing to do would be to get the ball rolling by contacting the BTP.

geordie_taxi

Stigy wrote: »

Where in an ideal world all rail staff would uphold the Byelaws, realistically it isn't going to happen, is it? There's much more to upholding bylaws than simply asking somebody to leave a train.

Altarf wrote: »

So they don't deal with the ticketing byelaws. Very interesting.

AKA Railway byelaw 18 (Ticketless travel in non-compulsory ticket areas) which rail staff seem very good on enforcing, i wonder why, oh yes it's the one which make money and makes them look productive in front of their manager.

Stigy wrote: »

For a start, train Guards etc aren't trained in enforcing the Byelaws as rule. At a push, they would ask somebody to leave a train, but when you have drunken yobbos running riot on the train, is this a wise move?

but their trained to do revenue duties, which means they don't stay in the guards van and avoid situations like this. If they had done their duty, then the situation could have been controlled better or he could have got the coppers to meet the train at the next station.

Stigy wrote: »

Train crews' job isn't to uphold the Byelaws. All rail staff have a duty to act in certain situations, morally, but upholding the Byelaws is reserved for specific staff as far as their job descriptions go.

Unless you can stiff the passenger for some more money, you know like if they've made a honest mistake with their ticket, but other byelaws aint important cos there's no money or promotion in it.

Stigy wrote: »

The role of train crew, is the safe running of the train first and foremost.

Lol, defending the indefensible, so you think a train is safe for its passengers if abusive people are threatening other passengers??

geordie_taxi

yorkie2 wrote: »

As you won't say the route, but we know it was a long journey, then it is very possible that it was one of the Glasgow/Edinburgh <> Manchester services, so very possibly a 6-coach train in which case the Guard may not have been close to what went on, or even aware of it.

isn't the guard supposed to change from one 3 carriage train to the other 3 carriage train at stations to carry out revenue duties?

So i find it very convenient that the guard wasn't to be found

Stigy

geordie_taxi wrote: »

AKA Railway byelaw 18 (Ticketless travel in non-compulsory ticket areas) which rail staff seem very good on enforcing, i wonder why, oh yes it's the one which make money and makes them look productive in front of their manager.



but their trained to do revenue duties, which means they don't stay in the guards van and avoid situations like this. If they had done their duty, then the situation could have been controlled better or he could have got the coppers to meet the train at the next station.



Unless you can stiff the passenger for some more money, you know like if they've made a honest mistake with their ticket, but other byelaws aint important cos there's no money or promotion in it.



Lol, defending the indefensible, so you think a train is safe for its passengers if abusive people are threatening other passengers??

Without pondering to your quite clear grudge against train companies, I will say simply this; Do you think a lone train Guard should confront a gang of drunken yobbos? As with most of my questions put to you, that one also is rhetorical.

geordie_taxi

Stigy wrote: »

Without pondering to your quite clear grudge against train companies, I will say simply this; Do you think a lone train Guard should confront a gang of drunken yobbos? As with most of my questions put to you, that one also is rhetorical.

I take it by your attitude, that it's ok for the fare paying passengers to have to put up with drunken yobs as long as it doesn't disturb the lone guard or affect company profits.

Also the only grudge I have is that train companies/staff seem to like to pick and choose which laws to uphold and the funny old thing it seems to be the ones which make money.

Stigy

geordie_taxi wrote: »

I take it by your attitude, that it's ok for the fare paying passengers to have to put up with drunken yobs as long as it doesn't disturb the lone guard or affect company profits.

Also the only grudge I have is that train companies/staff seem to like to pick and choose which laws to uphold and the funny old thing it seems to be the ones which make money.

I certainly do not think passengers should have to put up with drunken yobs. What I don't think should be expected is for lone train staff to intervene, as this would obviously pose a risk to them.

You seem to be under the impression that the TOCs profit from taking people to court or settling matters administratively? They don't.

yorkie2

Altarf wrote: »

A journey of several hours, and the guard didn't walk through the train once?

That would not appear to be very good, especially as these were football fans, so since the details of the game would have been publicised, the train company would have known that there was a strong possibility of fans who had drunk too much travelling.

So would there be a good reason for the guard not making an appearance?

The OP reported in the first post that the guard did walk through their part of the train once.

geordie_taxi wrote: »

isn't the guard supposed to change from one 3 carriage train to the other 3 carriage train at stations to carry out revenue duties?

So i find it very convenient that the guard wasn't to be found

There is certainly no requirement for a guard to change from one portion to the other at each station. Some would take the view that it would be safer for the Guard to remain in the rear 3 coaches, so that each 'portion' of the 6-coach train has at least one member of staff be in each portion. In any case, we know from the first post that the guard did a ticket check in the portion of the train which the OP occupied at the start of the journey.

As we do not know the route, or calling pattern of the train, time of train, or other details, a lot of this discussion is based on speculation.

If a criminal offence took place (which it sounds like), that can be reported directly to the driver, if it is not possible to speak to the Guard. Some trains do not have Guards, in which case the only option would be to speak to the driver. If any of the passengers had a 'phone, the matter could also be reported to the police.

geordie_taxi

b4gb4g wrote: »

UPDATE: Case has been resolved. Thank you to Trans Pennine Express, good customer service. :thumbsup:

And!!! What Happened??? Did you get your money back??? Oh it's so frustrating when a poster doesnt finalise a thread.

yorkie2 wrote: »

As we do not know the route, or calling pattern of the train, time of train, or other details, a lot of this discussion is based on speculation.

True, there was very little detail in the thread and unfortunately i dont think the OP will be back to explain anymore.

yorkie2

geordie_taxi wrote: »

And!!! What Happened??? Did you get your money back??? Oh it's so frustrating when a poster doesnt finalise a thread.

Agreed, I was thinking the same thing, especially when they delete their original post (good job someone quoted it!)