Case has been resolved. Thank you to Trans Pennine Express, good customer service

geordie_taxi

BMN wrote: »

Read the byelaws again. I can't find anywhere that even states an authorised person has to act if someone is in breach of the byelaws.

You've not posted any evidence of your point either. I can't because I'm arguing that this isn't covered by the railway byelaws - and that no such legal clause actually exists.

Already stated my evidence in earlier post #59, is railway byelaw 24.2.1 which stated that the offending person be removed from railway and I think a passenger's complaint equals reasonably belived.

The other evidence is railway byelaw 24.1

Any person who breaches these bye laws commits an offence

Or do you think that btp/authorised person should ignore crime

Owain_Moneysaver

It doesn't matter if they ignore it or not; they could have sent the SAS into the train and you still wouldn't be entitled to a refund.

mumps

I was on a train with drunken teenagers, they had been to a gig. The language was foul and I was hit by something they threw, I wasn't hurt but was annoyed. I complained to the guard and he did nothing.

I wrote to the train company and they said I should have moved into first class and saying the guard couldn't do much on his own. I suppose I would have got a fine then. I wrote again saying the guard never offered to let me move and I thought he should have contacted the transport police and asked them to meet the train at the next station and turn them off. I got an apology and some vouchers worth roughly the cost of my ticket. I didn't ask for compensation, I wanted them to tell the guard to call for help, I didn't expect the poor old guy to tackle a gang on his own.

rev_henry

This reminds me of another situation from my youth. Few years ago was waiting at a small city station with my mother, about 8pm or so. About 10 very drunk lads turned up expecting to board the same train as us. Weren't abusive or violent as such, just very rowdy, at one point began waving a broomstick around that was on the platform. Weren't actively doing anything to other passengers either, just being VERY boisterous and thus intimidating. Anyway the station manager had the train held outside the station and called police. No less than SEVEN of the local force turned up, including two ARMED RESPONSE guys and basically told them they weren't travelling and to go away. I couldn't believe how quiet/bored the local officers must have been to turn out like that given that it was fri/sat night, though I suppose if they had wanted to fight they would have needed all 7 of them. No actually, they had guns, I very much doubt fighting would have taken place. And then of course no taxi would take them. Anyway the moral of that story is (aside from it being hilarious) it wasn't difficult for something to be done, so I think it was pretty unreasonable that the guard didn't call for help.

BMN

geordie_taxi wrote: »

Already stated my evidence in earlier post #59, is railway byelaw 24.2.1 which stated that the offending person be removed from railway and I think a passenger's complaint equals reasonably belived.

The other evidence is railway byelaw 24.1


Or do you think that btp/authorised person should ignore crime

Your evidence isn't related to the issue we are discussing.

Of course I don't think they should ignore crime but again, nowhere do the byelaws place an obligation on an authorised person to deal with any offences.

geordie_taxi

mumps wrote: »

I was on a train with drunken teenagers, they had been to a gig. The language was foul and I was hit by something they threw, I wasn't hurt but was annoyed. I complained to the guard and he did nothing.

I wrote to the train company and they said I should have moved into first class and saying the guard couldn't do much on his own. I suppose I would have got a fine then. I wrote again saying the guard never offered to let me move and I thought he should have contacted the transport police and asked them to meet the train at the next station and turn them off. I got an apology and some vouchers worth roughly the cost of my ticket. I didn't ask for compensation, I wanted them to tell the guard to call for help, I didn't expect the poor old guy to tackle a gang on his own.

This is why the OP needs to write a letter of complaint, stating nothing was done about these abusive fans. The train company are responsible via the byelaws to sort these problems out and the compo is a way of saying we could have done better

geordie_taxi

Owain_Moneysaver wrote: »

It doesn't matter if they ignore it or not; they could have sent the SAS into the train and you still wouldn't be entitled to a refund.

Well mumps got a refund (#66) perhaps you're mistaken with your assumption

davenport151

Altarf wrote: »

But someone drunk screaming that you are a "motherf-ing w-ker" is not just a "loud" passenger are they.



You would guess wrong.

For example, the trains I use to and from London have no guard or any other members of staff other than the driver, and the only way to speak to the driver is pull the emergency cord.

I would be interested in which TOC company this is? FCC - though they are driver only ,do have a driver communication button by the doors as well as the emergency alarm.

Altarf

BMN wrote: »

You didn't pay attention to what I said.
It's not the staff that are breaking the byelaws though is it?
It was the "drunken football fans".

Yes, but it is the train staff who are ignoring the bylaws being broken. The bylaws that they are employed to uphold, but funnily enough they seem to be selective in which ones they want to deal with.

If the train staff don't want to do their job, then the train company can hardly complain when passengers take action by calling 999 and pulling the emergency handle so someone can take responsibility to deal with the problem.

davenport151 wrote: »

I would be interested in which TOC company this is? FCC - though they are driver only ,do have a driver communication button by the doors as well as the emergency alarm.

Yes is is, and no they don't.

There is no "driver communication button", there is an emergency handle (which allows you to speak to the driver) and the emergency door open, that is all.

There is not even any CCTV on the train, so for the whole journey nobody at the train company knows what is happening on their train.

So if something does occur, then the only people that can do anything are the passengers, and if the only thing the train company has provided to alert them of a problem is the emergency handle, then they shouldn't be surprised when people use it.

And it happens reasonably frequently, quite often if a passenger feels unwell the emergency handle gets pulled, as there is no other way of communicating with the only member of train staff, the driver.

davenport151

I stand corrected Altarf -thats not a very good situation is it?
In the OPs case I believe there was such a guard but he just wasn't visible.