Case has been resolved. Thank you to Trans Pennine Express, good customer service

Altarf

It is hard to imagine that a group of 10 drunk football fans screaming abuse at passengers could have boarded or remained on a 4 hour train journey unnoticed, so was the guard "not visible" or hiding?

And the staff at the train station ignored them as well.

A really good job the railway staff were all doing that day.

Owain_Moneysaver

geordie_taxi wrote: »

Well mumps got a refund (#66) perhaps you're mistaken with your assumption

There's a difference between getting an refund out of goodwill, and being entitled to one.

Stigy

Altarf wrote: »

Yes, but it is the train staff who are ignoring the bylaws being broken. The bylaws that they are employed to uphold, but funnily enough they seem to be selective in which ones they want to deal with.

If the train staff don't want to do their job, then the train company can hardly complain when passengers take action by calling 999 and pulling the emergency handle so someone can take responsibility to deal with the problem.



Yes is is, and no they don't.

There is no "driver communication button", there is an emergency handle (which allows you to speak to the driver) and the emergency door open, that is all.

There is not even any CCTV on the train, so for the whole journey nobody at the train company knows what is happening on their train.

So if something does occur, then the only people that can do anything are the passengers, and if the only thing the train company has provided to alert them of a problem is the emergency handle, then they shouldn't be surprised when people use it.

And it happens reasonably frequently, quite often if a passenger feels unwell the emergency handle gets pulled, as there is no other way of communicating with the only member of train staff, the driver.

Where in an ideal world all rail staff would uphold the Byelaws, realistically it isn't going to happen, is it? There's much more to upholding bylaws than simply asking somebody to leave a train.

For a start, train Guards etc aren't trained in enforcing the Byelaws as rule. At a push, they would ask somebody to leave a train, but when you have drunken yobbos running riot on the train, is this a wise move?

If the train staff knew about it, they should have contacted the BTP, and let them deal with it. That's about all we can reasonable expect, surely? If they saw it and ignored it, then that's wrong on their part.

Train crews' job isn't to uphold the Byelaws. All rail staff have a duty to act in certain situations, morally, but upholding the Byelaws is reserved for specific staff as far as their job descriptions go. The role of train crew, is the safe running of the train first and foremost.

Also, had the OP reported the matter to the Police himself, getting a 'curtesy' refund would have been much easier, as it demonstrates the severity of the situation. If it wasn't reported to police, was it THAT serious?

Altarf

Stigy wrote: »

Train crews' job isn't to uphold the Byelaws.

So they don't deal with the ticketing byelaws. Very interesting.

Stigy wrote: »

The role of train crew, is the safe running of the train first and foremost.

Doesn't that include considering whether their customers are safe from the drunks that they have allowed on the train, who are screaming insults at them?

As I have said before, if the train staff don't want to take control of problems by working with the BTP to deal with the situation, then don't be surprised when customers do.

dzug1

Altarf wrote: »

So they don't deal with the ticketing byelaws. Very interesting.



Doesn't that include considering whether their customers are safe from the drunks that they have allowed on the train, who are screaming insults at them?

As I have said before, if the train staff don't want to take control of problems by working with the BTP to deal with the situation, then don't be surprised when customers do.

And it's quite possible that passengers doing so may backfire and make the situation worse.

Altarf

dzug1 wrote: »

And it's quite possible that passengers doing so may backfire and make the situation worse.

So you would think that the train staff would want to do their job which is keeping customers safe, by taking control.

dzug1

Altarf wrote: »

So you would think that the train staff would want to do their job which is keeping customers safe, by taking control.

Perhaps they want to but don't feel capable of taking control?

Altarf

dzug1 wrote: »

Perhaps they want to but don't feel capable of taking control?

So they are not capable of picking up a phone, speaking to their management, who can arrange for BTP or local police to be present at a suitable station where the train can be stopped.

yorkie2

Where were you travelling from and to, and which Train Company was it?

yorkie2

Ah, I see. Other than the driver, it is likely there would only have been the Guard on board the train, and I agree that if the Guardwas not patrolling the train, then he/she would have been in the cab at the very rear of the train... unless it was a 6-car train, and you were in the front portion.

As you won't say the route, but we know it was a long journey, then it is very possible that it was one of the Glasgow/Edinburgh <> Manchester services, so very possibly a 6-coach train in which case the Guard may not have been close to what went on, or even aware of it.

However the trains do have CCTV, so if you believe a crime was committed, then the police could have gained access to the footage if deemed appropriate to their investigation.