Case has been resolved. Thank you to Trans Pennine Express, good customer service

dzug1

bernina1 wrote: »

Ultimately, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a train official to move through the train a few times over the course of a 4 hour journey and to ask people to behave themselves if they are being rowdy.

And what if they ignore the request - or indeed protest they are not being rowdy?

davenport151

The OP could have gone in search of staff though but was unable or unwilling to leave his luggage unattended. I think pulling the cord would have been over the top. Though he may well have had to move to the exit doors to pull the cord anyway!

mttylad

Pulling the cord would NOT have been the thing to do, that would stop the whole train -- a bit over the top and not what the emergency cord is there for.
ISTR that it does not allow you to talk to the driver, it just applies the brakes.

Also as for the refund, then yes I think you should get a refund, but only on the additional fee for the first class as you were able to make your journey - so a tenner is all, anything else is good will.

Edit: Reading this - it seems there is now an intercom to talk and the driver can override the cord.
Still not a good idea to pull it.

rev_henry

mttylad wrote: »

Pulling the cord would NOT have been the thing to do, that would stop the whole train -- a bit over the top and not what the emergency cord is there for.
ISTR that it does not allow you to talk to the driver, it just applies the brakes.

Also as for the refund, then yes I think you should get a refund, but only on the additional fee for the first class as you were able to make your journey - so a tenner is all, anything else is good will.

Edit: Reading this - it seems there is now an intercom to talk and the driver can override the cord.
Still not a good idea to pull it.

What IS the emergency cord there for then? I'm not entirely disagreeing with you just pointing out that people seem to have a very high threshold in their minds of what constitutes sufficient emergency to pull the cord.

I would argue that the threshold for a 999 call (officially 'threat to life or property or crime in progress') is equal to that for pulling the cord. Struggling to find the appropriate railway bye law right now but for someone to be fined for misuse of the cord I would think an element of recklessness/stupidity would have to be proved. I think if the OP had pulled it in good faith in this instance there would be 0 chance of prosecution.

I remember when I was a kid some silly woman was helping her elderly mother onto the train I was on. She managed to get stuck on it and it left with her still onboard. She pulled the cord and made an enormous fuss, the train was stopped and eventually the guard basically told her to stop fussing and that she would have to go onto the next stop. Which as this was a mainline train was Bolton (from Manchester Piccadilly, as I recall). Anyway I'm pretty sure she wasn't prosecuted, so I very much doubt the OP would have been.

DKLS

Think yourself lucky Op last time I went first class I had to sit opposite Jane McDonald, I also complained and didn't get a refund.

yorkie2

Becles wrote: »

That doesn't mean anything.

I recently went to an away football match with my sons. Knowing that football fans can get drunk and stupid, I purposely booked the quiet carriage.

When we got to York, a large group of extremely drunk women got on the train and sat in the quiet carriage. They sang loudly, swore, fell off their seats and made lewd comments to men in the carriage.

The train guard just said it always happens when evening trains go through York and just shrugged his shoulders.

I did write and complain to the train company but they just said a quiet coach is a request to be quiet and they can't do anything if passengers refuse to respect this.

Which Company operated that service?

If this was a Northbound East Coast service, the quiet coach becomes the loud coach from York, due to the position of the stairs at York station (the drunken people from the North East do not know about the underpass and cannot be bothered to walk far along the platform). To avoid them simply move to the rearmost Standard class coach at York.

Altarf

mttylad wrote: »

Pulling the cord would NOT have been the thing to do, that would stop the whole train -- a bit over the top and not what the emergency cord is there for.
ISTR that it does not allow you to talk to the driver, it just applies the brakes.
...
Edit: Reading this - it seems there is now an intercom to talk and the driver can override the cord.

The emergency handle / cord lets you speak to the driver. The driver then chooses whether to stop.

If you need to stop the train *now*, then using the emergency door open handle will cause the train to do so.

davenport151

I always thought the emergency cord was just that. To stop the train in an emergency. Being terrorised by other passengers not one unless in fear of ones saftey? Emergency being danger to self or other passengers (eg; To alert the driver of a fire- if anyone has actual details of this i would be interested.)
Thats why I suggested the BTP number before not 999.

Interestingly the OP has not been back on to confirm/deny any assumptions made.

Just re read Mttylads comment, I hadn't realised this but is it the same across all services?

dzug1

Pulling the cord could turn a mildly unpleasant 4 hour journey into a really unpleasant 5 or 6 hour one while the train proceeds to the next station and police are called to remove or calm down the alleged offenders and any others mistaken for them. It will also disrupt following services for hours.

Altarf

dzug1 wrote: »

Pulling the cord could turn a mildly unpleasant 4 hour journey into a really unpleasant 5 or 6 hour one while the train proceeds to the next station and police are called to remove or calm down the alleged offenders and any others mistaken for them. It will also disrupt following services for hours.

Mildly unpleasant, then don't pull the cord.

However it is clear that was not the situation in the OP's case -

b4gb4g wrote: »

At the very start of the journey a large gang of around 10 drunk men boarded the train and set up in the disabled space, behind first class. The first 2 hours of the journey was continuous screaming of football chants, whacking the walls, etc. At around the 40 minute mark, into the journey, the men came into the first class carriage and started abusing passengers who were quietly sitting there. The first man came in and started shouting "you're all motherf-ing first class w-kers". Abuse continued in this theme, abusing passengers for purchasing a first class ticket, and many passengers left at this point and were visibly upset.

So the simple question is, why did the station staff and the train staff not do anything about the situation?

If you were in a pub enjoying a quiet drink and someone came up to you screaming that you were a motherf-ing w-ker would you just put up with it for an a couple of hours? I doubt it.

The problem has been caused by the station staff allowing the drunks to travel, and the train staff to allow the drunks to threaten and abuse passengers.

If the station and train staff won't do anything, then they shouldn't be surprised when passengers do.