Housing benefit fraud

keithj1983

Hi everyone, so the day started off quite badly, my solicitor was meant to have a pre disclosure meeting with the council at 930-10am and then we were meant to have 10-1030am with our solicitor to go over things before our meeting started at 1030. 950am and my solicitor calls.... sorry I cant make it today! My mum is pretty much about to have a breakdown at this point. I called the solicitor firm and I went mental at them. Eventually they agreed to send another solicitor, which turned out to be the first solicitor we spoke to as her court case got pushed back. She turned up at 1020. She had a 5min disclosure and we had 5 mins to prepare ourselves.

Trying to cut a long story short, this is something that I never mentioned before on here, I own the flat that my mum rents and receives HB for. This is perfectly legal and the council are fully aware of this. It turns out the investigation is because my mum receives lets say £500 HB and she sends me a standing order each month for lets say £450. So the council think that she is pocketing the extra £50. They say they have based her HB based on her rent being lets say £650 a month. If she only pays £450 instead of £650 she should not get as much as £500. We explained that my mum helps out loads looking after my young son and he often stays over at hers etc which has an expense and thats why I take £200 less. The council advised that she should pay £650 and I should then give her £200 cash if thats how much she spends on him. We acknowledged this. She said that they will now go away and order the last 5 years statements to see what HB my mum has been paid, what has been paid to me in a standing order, what the difference is in an overpayment and then if they can justify the way we have done things.

Because they are going to request and look at the last 5 years statements they will see the 60k I put in her name which we thought was the issue, so we told the truth about this, how i got the money, why I transferred it to my mum etc and the lady interviewing didnt question this at all. It doesnt appear that at the moment it is even an issue, I think she fully realised it was my money from what we told the council and the evidence we had.

Who knows now though that when the get the statements that it wont become an issue. They havnt stopped my mums HB and the solicitor seemed to think that they definitely would have if they thought that there was HB fraud being committed. However they seem to be more concerned about the overpaying issue.

Of course we have now set up a new SO for the full amount on the councils advice.

It shows that you have to really think about how you do things, potentially we have committed two offences here but both have been unintentional and are for no gain in any way.

The council were very understanding which was good and they did seem to understand why we have done things the way have.

Apparently we wont get an update now for between3-6months

keithj1983

GirlFromMars wrote: »

... can I just add ...

... if the investigators do take the view that the beneficial ownership of this money passed to your mother, and she gives it back to you now, then she won't be able to claim housing benefit (or other means tested benefits) as giving away her own money would be counted as Deprivation of Capital ...

... it does sound like the money was always yours even though it has been in your mother's accounts, so I hope that the investigators can see this, and you can get back to a state where you each hold your own bank accounts!

The solicitor told us we must close all the accounts in my mums name apart from her daily current account and transfer everything back to me, not only because of this but because of future issues it may cause when trying to sort out HB again after this comes to an end.

Yesterday I transferred everything back to myself, the Scottish Widows account was difficult and my mum had to complete quite a lot of forms called surrender forms. I had to lose the interest gained but in this situation that is not the priority. However they did not charge us because it was due to mature in 2015.

NYM

Has your Mum been paying you less rent than the amount she's been receiving in HB since she started claiming ?

keithj1983

superbigal36 wrote: »

I may have missed somewhere on this thread but have you been living with your mum since your return ?

I have not lived with my mum, I have been in rented property.

keithj1983

NYM wrote: »

Has your Mum been paying you less rent than the amount she's been receiving in HB since she started claiming ?

No, but on paper yes. She should give me 650, she gives me 450 and I giver her 200 for childcare/spending on my son. She gets 500 benefit. So instead of my mum giving me 650 then me giving her 200 back I told her just to set up a SO for 450, thats where the issue is

NYM

keithj1983 wrote: »

No, but on paper yes. She should give me 650, she gives me 450 and I giver her 200 for childcare/spending on my son. She gets 500 benefit. So instead of my mum giving me 650 then me giving her 200 back I told her just to set up a SO for 450, thats where the issue is

Whilst you were travelling, was that the same arrangement ?

keithj1983

NYM wrote: »

Whilst you were travelling, was that the same arrangement ?

It has been the same but because I travelled I gave her £50 more so the SO was another £50 less.

comeandgo

You would be able to prove to the council you charged £650 a month rent by showing them your tax returns showing the full income.

NYM

keithj1983 wrote: »

It has been the same but because I travelled I gave her £50 more so the SO was another £50 less.

So, whilst you were travelling, your Mum paid you £400 p/m instead of £650 ? Why ? Presumably, you had your child with you.

How have you accounted to HMRC regarding rental income...is it for what you received or what you should have received ?

keithj1983

NYM wrote: »

So, whilst you were travelling, your Mum paid you £400 p/m instead of £650 ? Why ? Presumably, you had your child with you.

How have you accounted to HMRC regarding rental income...is it for what you received or what you should have received ?

I would prefer not to go too much into my personal life, but no my son did not come travelling with me.

I now give my mum 200 for helping out looking after him, school runs, food etc, whilst I was away it was increased to £250 as she done more.

The facts are only 450 goes into my account instead of 650 and the reason is I give her 200. The council told me i should collect 650 and then give her 200.

If they cannot accept the explanation regarding the 200, Im happy now to pay the overpayment to have this whole situation sorted.