Housing benefit fraud

Poppie68

I wish you and your mum luck....just be honest and open and provide all the proof you can, not much more you can do.

keithj1983

comeandgo wrote: »

What happens to the £45k after the seven years? It will have to be paid into your mums bank account, will there be interest to declare? There is nothing that will stay hidden involving bank accounts and benefits. If you did not declare it would you and your mum not be worrying and waiting for another letter or call?

At the time I didnt even consider these scenarios because we didnt think about HB or that we were doing anything wrong. Im hoping now that the money can be transferred into my account although now this has happened im not sure it makes a massive difference? There will be interest to declare which I would declare as Ive never done anything knowingly wrong.

keithj1983

Poppie68 wrote: »

I wish you and your mum luck....just be honest and open and provide all the proof you can, not much more you can do.

Thank you, I'm going with my mum tomorrow so I will post tomorrow with an update if anyone is keen to see how this pans out.

KiKi

keithj1983 wrote: »

7.5k in an ISA because I have my own already

Just wanted to highlight this. This isn't something you want to say to an investigator.

Firstly, you can have more than one ISA, so your reasoning doesn't make sense.

Secondly, if you did genuinely believe that you couldn't have more than one ISA, the fact that you then asked your mum to do it so that you had two suggests you *were* trying to act fraudulently.

Finally, if you do understand ISAs and the limits that you're allowed, and did deliberately ask your mum to save or invest this 7.5K for you because it would have taken you over the limit for that year, then *you* will be in trouble.

I recommend you check whether or not the ISA your mum saved / invested over however many years has taken you over the ISA limit for any one tax year. If it has, then you may have to remove it from the ISA and forfeit any interest.

But telling an investigator that you deliberately asked your mum to invest it because you already had one suggests a) you were trying to get around the ISA limits for your own financial benefit or b) you knew you would be over the limit so gifted the money to your mum and it's now hers.

Hope that makes sense.
KiKi

Anchoress

KiKi wrote: »

Finally, if you do understand ISAs and the limits that you're allowed, and did deliberately ask your mum to save or invest this 7.5K for you because it would have taken you over the limit for that year, then *you* will be in trouble.


Hope that makes sense.
KiKi

Probably the lesser of two evils in this case I think.

Just wanted to say to the OP that of all the threads I've read on here concerning possible fraud, yours is the most plausible as a case of an honest mistake. It seems you have a good paper trail to back up what you've said, so complete honesty about the 45k is a must. I agree with the other poster that said that it should actually help your case not hinder it.

Apart from the ISA issue, I too would say this is a 50/50 situation. Hope it goes well for you.

Mojisola

keithj1983 wrote: »

The solicitor basically said to me "i cant give you advice but if it was me I would get the 45k out of your mums name before thursday and then do not tell tham about it" I told her this was not possible and she said she cant advise me what to do but only to disclose what they know about.

keithj1983 wrote: »

My mum told him the situation and he has advised that you have to honest and they will probably know everything anyway. He said dont focus on the amounts in the accounts because she is only under investigation for failure to discloe accounts. However when we do mention them then im sure the amounts will then come into play. He said its then down to our evidence and the people investigating and its a 50/50 case.

I would get the interview over first but then I would pass on what the first solicitor said. That was really bad advice.

keithj1983

KiKi wrote: »

Just wanted to highlight this. This isn't something you want to say to an investigator.

Firstly, you can have more than one ISA, so your reasoning doesn't make sense.

Secondly, if you did genuinely believe that you couldn't have more than one ISA, the fact that you then asked your mum to do it so that you had two suggests you *were* trying to act fraudulently.

Finally, if you do understand ISAs and the limits that you're allowed, and did deliberately ask your mum to save or invest this 7.5K for you because it would have taken you over the limit for that year, then *you* will be in trouble.

I recommend you check whether or not the ISA your mum saved / invested over however many years has taken you over the ISA limit for any one tax year. If it has, then you may have to remove it from the ISA and forfeit any interest.

But telling an investigator that you deliberately asked your mum to invest it because you already had one suggests a) you were trying to get around the ISA limits for your own financial benefit or b) you knew you would be over the limit so gifted the money to your mum and it's now hers.

Hope that makes sense.
KiKi

Hi Kiki, thank you for the reply, I appreciate it, not knowing too much about finance and benefits is what has gotten us into this mess. I did only think that you could have one ISA and that is why my mum opened an ISA for part of the money. I would accept that I was acting fraudulently in regards to trying to make a bit of interest from the ISA but I dont think that will relate to anything fraudulant with the HB? I think that would be my own secondary issue?

keithj1983

Anchoress wrote: »

Probably the lesser of two evils in this case I think.

Just wanted to say to the OP that of all the threads I've read on here concerning possible fraud, yours is the most plausible as a case of an honest mistake. It seems you have a good paper trail to back up what you've said, so complete honesty about the 45k is a must. I agree with the other poster that said that it should actually help your case not hinder it.

Apart from the ISA issue, I too would say this is a 50/50 situation. Hope it goes well for you.

I hope so, thank you.

KiKi

keithj1983 wrote: »

Hi Kiki, thank you for the reply, I appreciate it, not knowing too much about finance and benefits is what has gotten us into this mess. I did only think that you could have one ISA and that is why my mum opened an ISA for part of the money. I would accept that I was acting fraudulently in regards to trying to make a bit of interest from the ISA but I dont think that will relate to anything fraudulant with the HB? I think that would be my own secondary issue?

It would be a secondary issue, but it might suggest something about your and your mum's characters that might make them less inclined to believe you.

Forget stocks and shares ISAs for a minute, which are about investing in shares. For cash ISAs (where you are saving cash only), each tax year (06 April to 05 April) you can save up to a certain amount of money in any ONE ISA account. This tax year - 2013-14 - it's £5,760. It has been lower in previous years (it was £3000 in 2007 if I remember rightly, then £3600 in 2008 etc).

But you can have more than one ISA account because next tax year, instead of adding to the account you've already got, you can put 2014-15's allowance into a different ISA account which pays more interest. Thus you have two ISAs. And you could then open a third, fourth, fifth account at any time and move ISA money into it because the interest rate is better.

So you need to look at the limits for each tax year and see how much you've put in each year. Your mum wouldn't have been able to put £7.5k into one ISA in one year, unless she put some in a Cash ISA and some into a Stocks and Shares ISA. And as it's in her name, any 'issues' with the ISAs are hers, unfortunately.

That's why I'm saying you need to be careful into how you explain it. If you suggest at any point that you deliberately did the ISA thing fraudulently because you were trying to get around the system, it doesn't reflect well on your character and may make them less inclined to believe you on the issues that they're actually investigating.

HTH
KiKi

keithj1983

KiKi wrote: »

It would be a secondary issue, but it might suggest something about your and your mum's characters that might make them less inclined to believe you.

Forget stocks and shares ISAs for a minute, which are about investing in shares. For cash ISAs (where you are saving cash only), each tax year (06 April to 05 April) you can save up to a certain amount of money in any ONE ISA account. This tax year - 2013-14 - it's £5,760. It has been lower in previous years (it was £3000 in 2007 if I remember rightly, then £3600 in 2008 etc).

But you can have more than one ISA account because next tax year, instead of adding to the account you've already got, you can put 2014-15's allowance into a different ISA account which pays more interest. Thus you have two ISAs. And you could then open a third, fourth, fifth account at any time and move ISA money into it because the interest rate is better.

So you need to look at the limits for each tax year and see how much you've put in each year. Your mum wouldn't have been able to put £7.5k into one ISA in one year, unless she put some in a Cash ISA and some into a Stocks and Shares ISA. And as it's in her name, any 'issues' with the ISAs are hers, unfortunately.

That's why I'm saying you need to be careful into how you explain it. If you suggest at any point that you deliberately did the ISA thing fraudulently because you were trying to get around the system, it doesn't reflect well on your character and may make them less inclined to believe you on the issues that they're actually investigating.

HTH
KiKi

Hi KIKI, to be honest im not exactly sure what the split of the 15k was between the ISA and the savings account back in 2009, I just no know that each account holds approx 7.5k each. I think the only thing that can help both my mum and me is our character like you say and if they believe that we are telling the truth. If you have time i have put together a quick letter that im going to give to my mum to hand to the investigators tomorrow, ive tried to put in as much as possible without putting in too much if that makes sense, this is the first time i have had to write something like this. I'll post it up now

Thank you