Benefit Investigation

publicsectorworker

Someone i know has had a letter from dwp investigating there claim. basically they had money in a isa that wasn't declared when they started the claim 5 years ago and because they drew a certain amount out the tax office alerted dwp that money had gone from isa to another account. dwp then asked where this had come from and for statements of both accounts. statements were sent to dwp but were edited to remove some transactions as one of the accounts was a joint one. dwp have said they are investigating why the isa had between 7 and 11000 in it over 5 years while claiming jsa. what is likely happen to the claimant bearing in mind they have said its an oversight and they will pay back any overpayment?

lld01

No-one on here can say for sure

Best case (& most likely) scenario - an overpayment which they must pay back with a £50 civil penalty on top.

Worst case scenario - prosecution for fraud. This is more likely if the overpayment is 1000s (and includes housing benefit / council tax reduction).

publicsectorworker

lld01 wrote: »

No-one on here can say for sure

Best case (& most likely) scenario - an overpayment which they must pay back with a £50 civil penalty on top.

Worst case scenario - prosecution for fraud. This is more likely if the overpayment is 1000s (and includes housing benefit / council tax reduction).

its just jsa that was claimed, no hb or ct. it sounds like it might be a few thousand overpayment because its for a few years.

cattie

Whatever happens, prosecution or a demand for repayment + a fine, they will need to pay back the money, so will get no kudos for stating it was an oversight & they will repay the money.

DWP will investigate all bank & savings accounts the person now has & their financial situation over the past 5yrs before making a decision. This could take quite some time & if any other means tested benefits have been claimed, such as housing benefit, the local authority will be notified of the DWP's findings.

[Deleted User]

doesnt matter that an account was a joint one,doesnt look good if the fraud was over £2000 they may prosecute

Dovah_diva

publicsectorworker wrote: »

its just jsa that was claimed, no hb or ct. it sounds like it might be a few thousand overpayment because its for a few years.

An oversight for a few years? Righto. Intentional benefit fraud is more likely. No one 'forgets' a significant amount of savings - especially when claiming a means tested benefit.

rogerblack

woodbine wrote: »

doesnt matter that an account was a joint one,doesnt look good if the fraud was over £2000 they may prosecute

Yes, it matters.
Even though you can go into the bank and withdraw money, that does not make the money yours.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/252063/dmg-vol9-ch52.pdf

Search for 'Pradeep' - which shows an example of someone who holds money in their account for someone else not having that money counted as capital.

_NEVER_ do anything with bank statements that may be viewed as attempting to conceal evidence. Show the full statement (which they likely already have) and explain why it is misleading if it is so.

If the claimant has actually had (say) 8000 average, and there is no question that this money is theirs, then the total overpayment for JSA alone will be around 2000 pounds.

If they are also claiming HB/LHA, there may be a separate overpayment for the same amount for that.

(8000-6000 allowance = 2000. 2000/250 (income assumed from capital) = 8 * 52*5.

FBaby

what is likely happen to the claimant bearing in mind they have said its an oversight and they will pay back any overpayment?

It is going to be difficult to convince it was just an oversight when subsequently, steps were taken to falsify documents to hide more information.

publicsectorworker

Dovah_diva wrote: »

An oversight for a few years? Righto. Intentional benefit fraud is more likely. No one 'forgets' a significant amount of savings - especially when claiming a means tested benefit.

I think there was just over the limit when the claim started and the account got added to and then it's not in there mind once the claim is routine and no more forms to fill in.

publicsectorworker

rogerblack wrote: »

Yes, it matters.
Even though you can go into the bank and withdraw money, that does not make the money yours.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/252063/dmg-vol9-ch52.pdf

Search for 'Pradeep' - which shows an example of someone who holds money in their account for someone else not having that money counted as capital.

_NEVER_ do anything with bank statements that may be viewed as attempting to conceal evidence. Show the full statement (which they likely already have) and explain why it is misleading if it is so.

If the claimant has actually had (say) 8000 average, and there is no question that this money is theirs, then the total overpayment for JSA alone will be around 2000 pounds.

If they are also claiming HB/LHA, there may be a separate overpayment for the same amount for that.

(8000-6000 allowance = 2000. 2000/250 (income assumed from capital) = 8 * 52*5.

dont think they have full statements because dwp asked for them due to data protection they can't get them. The person has worked out the overpayment by looking at how much over they were each week and then taking off 6000 to see how many x250 they are over for that week and adding all that up. They have taken it as though all the money is the claimants but it sounds like it might not be if it's joint account.

publicsectorworker

FBaby wrote: »

It is going to be difficult to convince it was just an oversight when subsequently, steps were taken to falsify documents to hide more information.

It was done to show the claimants transactions separate from the joint acc holder not to falsify or hide information. Dwp have what is relevant to the claimant