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charge notice?

edited 31 December 2013 at 8:25AM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
12 replies 2.4K views
tigertimmtigertimm Forumite
4 Posts
edited 31 December 2013 at 8:25AM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
hi all, just rec'd a 'charge notice' (thats all it says), for being in a mcd's were i was carrying out an inspection, rec'd in post as NtK 12 days after event. Query here is after reading alot of threads etc is the address on this NtK is not strictly correct should i highlight this on my appeal to the PC? i have drafted an appeal and will send within 28 day period which i can post if anyone can help. thanks

Name:
Address:
Date:

Without prejudice, except as to costs

Charge Notice - 00000000000

This letter is a formal challenge to the issue of your Charge Notice as set out in the current BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice B.22

On xxxxxxxxx I was the registered keeper of a xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Before I decide how to deal with your Charge Notice, I should be grateful if you would first answer all the questions and deal with all the issues I have set out below. Once you have done so, I will be able to make an informed decision on how I deal with the matter.

I should be grateful for specific answers to all questions raised. In this respect I remind you of the obligations set out in the current Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

I dispute your claim for the reasons set out below. Please note that although I dispute the whole basis of the charge notice, my main concern is its disproportionate and punitive level.

1. Your parking charge amount claim.

Please explain on which of the following grounds your claim is based:

(i) Damages for trespass
(ii) Damages for breach of contract
(iii) A contractual sum
2. Your loss.

If it is your case that a trespass was committed or that a contract was breached such that your claim is one for damages; please give me a full breakdown of the actual losses which evidences that this parking charge is a true reflection of the damages caused solely by the alleged contravention.


3. Your status – the creditor.

Your Charge Notice simply mentions UKPC Ltd. Please tell me who is the actual creditor making this £100 parking charge demand. I need to know exactly who is making the claim and in what capacity.

4. Ownership of premises.

Please tell me who owns the car park as I wish to send them a copy of this letter.

5. Contractual Authority (as required by BPA Ltd AOS CoP B.7)

Please provide me with a copy of the contract between your company and the landowner/landholder that provides the necessary contractual written authority for the issue and enforcement of your Charge Notice.

6. Signage.

If it is your case that a contract has been breached or that a contractual sum is now due, please send me photographs of the signs that you display and upon which you seek to evidence that a lawful and legally enforceable contract was been entered into. Please ensure that the photographs show the terms and conditions in a clear and legible manner. Please provide me with a diagram showing the locations and layout of those signs at the car park. Also provide evidence that the wording is in plain and intelligible language and in sufficiently large print as to be legible to a driver at the car park’s entry point.
7. Summary
My challenge is based on the assertion that your parking charge does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss to yourself or the landowner. In every case where a motorist has raised this issue, POPLA have accepted the appeal.
You are therefore fully aware that there is no prospect of your charge being upheld and I invite you to cancel the charge now.
If you decide to continue to pursue this matter and reject this challenge then please supply a POPLA code. However please be aware that further points including (but not limited to) no contract with landowner and/or driver or authority to pursue parking charges in own name, inadequate signage etc may be raised at POPLA.
Please note that should my appeal be upheld at POPLA for any reason, I reserve the right to claim my expenses from you and my time in challenging this parking charge at the court rate of £18 per hour.
The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail.
I look forward to receiving your acknowledgement within 14 days and as there are no ‘exceptional circumstances’ your comprehensive reply within 35 days (in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22.8). I will then be able to make an informed decision as to how I deal with your Charge Notice.
If you reject this challenge or fail to address the issues that have been raised then, in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice 22.12, please ensure that you enclose all the required information (including the necessary ‘POPLA code’) so that I may immediately refer the matter for their decision.
If you fail to follow any of the procedures outlined in the BPA AOS Code of Practice or your legal requirements under the Protection of Freedoms Act, or the requirements of the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct then I will make a formal complaint to the DVLA Data Sharing Policy Group, D16.
Please Note: Unless you have specifically requested it and received my express permission, you do not have my authority to disclose or refer this letter or any other communication from me to any other person or organisation.
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Replies

  • RedxRedx Forumite
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    firstly, make sure you have read the NEWBIES - READ THIS FIRST sticky thread near the top of the forum

    yes you can post your soft appeal for checking, but do not admit to being the driver, post as the RK so in the third party (the driver didnt see...blah blah)

    bear in mind that generally they will refuse your soft appeal and so with BPA members you need a POPLA code by return

    people usually win nn not a gpeol, no contract or signage at POpLA, so those are what you hit them with , mitigation may work but general paper discrepancies wont

    the point here being they try to entrap motorists into paying out £100 or so, with silly rules etc
  • just noticed on this charge notice that the address is incorrect and that it states the vehicle was recorded parked on our clients property when the photos supplied only show a vehicle entering and leaving the car park?
    thanks for any replies, have bern on newbie section as well as pepipoo, park prankster and parking cowboys, tried to digest, their alot of it seems to me i will be going down the popla route on geopl basis?
  • edited 31 December 2013 at 8:48AM
    RedxRedx Forumite
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    edited 31 December 2013 at 8:48AM
    not wanting to nitpick but your soft appeal is more like a popla appeal, also if you ask questions it is not an appeal and will not hook a popla code on that basis, you run the risk of them replying and backwards and forwards letters or emails that still do not hook a popla code

    most soft appeals would be maybe 20 lines at most, more if you think your mitigation will get the ticket cancelled

    so my opinion is that its too long with too much detail and asks too many questions, it also tips your hand if it comes to popla or court

    I would save it for popla and maybe amend it based on this popla appeal http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816165

    in the meantime come up with a put up or shut up soft appeal , maybe mentioning mitigation if you have any but almost demanding the popla code, saving your detailed arguments for popla

    most companies employ anpr at the entrance and exit, so they base their whole case on those photos and any reg numbers entered into any p&d machines (where applicable)

    see post #8 here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4855472 for an economical soft appeal, just add anything else you feel relevant, but as RK not the driver
  • just called mcd's and spoke to manager who took details and has agreed to email ukpc and copy me in asking for charge notice to be cancelled... result ;-) thanks to all who have took time to write these threads on the newbie section advising this in 1st instance, looks like it may have saved me an awful lot of time and effort dealing eith these cowboys, pls note manager didnt need to be persuaded he offered straight away so maybe mcd's had a change of policy?
  • RedxRedx Forumite
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    thanks for letting us know

    cancellation by the store managers or landowners is always your first port of call and is the quickest way to get it cancelled

    however, make sure you get this in writing from the ppc themselves and do not lose the timeframe you currently have, if necessary write a soft appeal telling them this and insist you want the cancellation in writing from UKPC themselves

    ie:- promises have been made and broken in the past and deadlines may pass causing more grief down the line

    so if you havent had a cancellation in a week or so, put in your robust appeal mentioning this as regards the mickeyd managers promise , be proactive and not complacent

    good luck
  • tigertimm wrote: »
    so maybe mcd's had a change of policy?

    I doubt it. Most are locally managed even if they belong to a wider franchise or are actual McD stores centrally owned.

    Often to communicate with the management of these sites where tickets are issued is a loophole to have the demands cancelled; normally where the nature of business is retail and the aim is to attract people to visit and spend, you have in some way cornered your enemy into submission. If he does not cooperate, it will be bad coverage and this will repel customers. The manager's decision needs to be balanced and he has to decide which of the options will be less damaging.

    What they would really prefer is that you pay your charge and not bother them at all but they cannot say this!!!!

    But no change in policy, the parking company will continue to operate and the same handful will make the same big profits from those vulnerable victims who pay out.
  • edited 31 December 2013 at 10:12AM
    android26android26
    97 Posts
    edited 31 December 2013 at 10:12AM
    tigertimm wrote: »

    Without prejudice, except as to costs

Charge Notice - 00000000000

    This letter is a formal challenge to the issue of your Charge Notice as set out in the current BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice B.22.......

    ...I should be grateful for specific answers to all questions raised. In this respect I remind you of the obligations set out in the current Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.......

    For future reference, you might be better off finding an up to date appeal template for initial and popla appeals. This one has cropped up a few times recently and to my non expert eye, looks to be indirect in it's aims and unclear in it's intentions, especially the parts I've quoted.

    :beer:
  • I'm looking for some advice. PE have sent me a charge for 100 pounds for being 7 minutes late. It feels harsh. How should I deal with this?
  • UmkomaasUmkomaas Forumite
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    I'm looking for some advice. PE have sent me a charge for 100 pounds for being 7 minutes late. It feels harsh. How should I deal with this?

    By opening a new thread of your own to start with please. One case, one thread - forum rule.

    But only do this after reading the following link very carefully (as your answers lie within in it) if there's something you don't understand.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • edited 31 December 2013 at 10:54AM
    tigertimmtigertimm Forumite
    4 Posts
    edited 31 December 2013 at 10:54AM
    hi, best advice would be to read the newbie section, and in my case i contacted the manager of the shop i was at while parked who agreed to cancel the pcn, other than that follow advice in newbie section, and as the exp members have stated pls open your own thread.
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