school fines for out of term holidays?

Janepig

ALI1973 wrote: »

The three private schools in my area have this policy, so I have no reason to doubt that other private schools also do this. However, if this is not correct for all private schools I apologise.

I find that hard to believe, I would imagine that as long as you are paying the fees then (within reason) I can't see the school being bothered about a child missing school for a short time.

This policy has been brought in in Wales recently, I know our headmaster isn't happy about it, he's always been very good about authorising term time holidays. I know one of my friends was worried as she's taking her DS to a friend's wedding in Greece next year which is already booked, but he's authorised it on the basis that it was booked before this rule came into effect (it did seem to be brought in at lightning speed with no warning).

I'm not sure if the fines are automatic though or if you build up so much unauthorised absence over a period of time. Every month or so the Court where I worked until recently would have a session for parents who were charged with "failing to send their child to school". I know from sitting in on some cases that these would often take upwards of a year to come to Court, for the LEA to build a case, and then it was only after the Attendance Officers had done alot to try and get the children attending regularly. To my mind, those cases are alot more serious than someone taking their kids out of school for a week's holiday in primary school once in a blue moon.

Jx

bestpud

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Actually - I think it is a 'crime' and a crying shame when parents would ask their children to lie to their teachers about why they were away from school.

Teaching your children to lie to save a few pounds is just pathetic - you reap what you sow... one day they'll be lying to the parents and it'll serve them right because they've given them the OK about not needing to be honest.

Very poor parenting.

Why thank you!

Although it isn't something I do or have done.

If I had children in school then I suspect I would now this policy has been changed, but then I want my children to be independent thinkers and unafraid of challenging or sidestepping authority when it is dictatorial and unnecessary.

Spendless

Mojisola wrote: »

A Penalty Notice will only be issued to a parent/carer if the pupil has at least 10 sessions (5 school days) lost to unauthorised absence recorded within the previous six months - not 10 absences on each occasion.

One thing that is very unfair is that both parents can be fined - even if the parents have split up and one parent has no say in whether the children are taken out of school or not.

Thanks, that's interesting. I hadn't found any criteria under when a PN kicked in. That means that anyone taking a weeks break where at least one of the days was an inset day would not receive one - like in the OP's case. Do you have a link btw?

My LA has defined what they consider 'exceptional circs'. They are (I'm paraphrasing)

A parent in the armed forces returning from or about to go on a tour of duty abroad.

When a holiday is recommended as rehabilitation due to an emotional or medical upheaval - evidence needed from healthcare professional

When an employer does not give scope for any holidays to be taken in school holidays - evidence to be provided.

Anything else that the head may consider exceptional circs to be referred to LA for their decision.

Mojisola

Spendless wrote: »

Thanks, that's interesting. I hadn't found any criteria under when a PN kicked in. That means that anyone taking a weeks break where at least one of the days was an inset day would not receive one - like in the OP's case. Do you have a link btw?

This is from Wiltshire - https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/penalty-notice-code-of-conduct-revised-2013-september.pdf - but I've searched a bit more and other councils seem to be interpreting the law in different ways.

Bradford has set a "five days in six weeks" standard in their Penalty Notice Procedure.

I don't know how there can be so much variation in something that has been set out by a national law. I know that a lot of Headteachers are upset because their ability to authorise absences has been so restricted.

It's really important to check your own authority although all schools should have sent out information to parents setting out the new rules.

couponqueen123

springdreams wrote: »

The rules changed in September 2013, at the beginning of the new school year, so after last years summer holiday.

The new rules have been put in place by goverment, and the schools no longer have a discretion.

they do my dd best friend when to Germany for the last 3 weeks of term just gone and the school were fine with it they gave her home work and spelling tests and even skyped the class she hasnt been fined

there not the only ones either a few were off to Spain and america for xmas all were not in school the last week all told the school before hand not one of them were told do not go or it wasnt ok

duchy

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Sorry but that is a pathetic thing to say - 'Dictated to'? Are you kidding?

It's your children's education and it is a government directive... just grow up.

Taking kids out of school without good reason (and getting a cheap holiday is NOT a good reason) just gives your kids the message that education is not as important as pleasing yourself.

What sort of life lesson is that?

I think parents would be a lot more likely to feel as Tiddlywinks (who sounds like any experience of the school system isn't recent) if school days were all learning days. Most schools seem to treat both the last week of the Christmas and Summer terms as "free" weeks with lots of videos and other non learning activities - both at primary and high school level. Respect for any institution soon disappears when the institution gives such mixed messages.
I think the final straw for me was whilst working in a high school and there was a training day...... The school was closed for the day however all the staff had the day off as training was done between 3 and 7 the preceding two evenings. Parents have enough difficulty covering training days -if teachers can do training as "twilight" to get a day off - why not do it routinely this way rather than inconvenience hundreds of families. Perhaps schools who use training days to get a day off should be fined too.

jdvhsully

Even if the school unauthorises the holiday, they cannot stop you taking it. It will effect your attendance % and will show on any attendance certificate issued.

I work in a secondary school (not a teacher) so have a pro rata salary. I am not allowed any time off during the term for holiday's etc so have to go on holiday during the most expensive times.

Would parents be happy if you did not have either teachers or support staff for two weeks so they can have cheaper holidays?

As for children talking to each other- a number of ours who are "ill" for a week (usually the parent leaves a message on the absence answer machine saying **** has flu/ sickness bug/ diarrhoea etc and will not be in for the rest of the week) happily post pictures on Facebook etc showing them suffering their illness in Tenerife, Egypt etc. To name but 2 incidents this term!

What does this teach the child about work ethics etc?

Delree

There's some great justifications on here for wrenching kids out of term time so mummy and daddy can have a jolly abroad.

duchy

jdvhsully wrote: »

Even if the school unauthorises the holiday, they cannot stop you taking it. It will effect your attendance % and will show on any attendance certificate issued.

I work in a secondary school (not a teacher) so have a pro rata salary. I am not allowed any time off during the term for holiday's etc so have to go on holiday during the most expensive times.

Would parents be happy if you did not have either teachers or support staff for two weeks so they can have cheaper holidays?

Interestingly in the US teachers CAN take time off.
Each teacher ( and support staff too) has a number of "personal days" to use as they see fit-be that as paid sick days or holidays . I think it is something like five a year -seems to work according to most of my teacher friends and cover is better handled as fewer teachers "pull sickies" when they have something they absolutely have to/really want to do.

pollypenny

duchy wrote: »

The school was closed for the day however all the staff had the day off as training was done between 3 and 7 the preceding two evenings. Parents have enough difficulty covering training days -if teachers can do training as "twilight" to get a day off - why not do it routinely this way rather than inconvenience hundreds of families. Perhaps schools who use training days to get a day off should be fined too.

You wouldn't gain anything. The training days were added on to the existing school year. If they came as a single entity at the end of any term, you'd never have noticed.