Horsey money saving hints? (merged)

orlao

MrsTine wrote: »

trudij - I've never heard of laminitis killing a horse... yes it can in rare cases be severe enough that the kindest thing is to euthanise the animal - but kill it directly? no

Sadly, it can and does. Due to change in our climate with much longer grass growing seasons - think about it, the first week in November and grass is still growing at a rate of knots and won't stop growing or lose it's goodness until we have a week of nights at below 5C which makes lami a practically all year round disease. As LIR said, once the pedal bone collapses through the sole, PTS is the only option IMHO - and it truly terrifying how quickly that can happen. A matter of weeks if the attack isn't caught quickly/managed properly.

Some horses can effectively become allergic to grass after a few bouts of laminitis - my vet describes it as becoming poisonous and they can have a flare up on any grazing, not just the lush "typical spring grass" often in a matter of hours. And every attack does proportionally more damage to an already unstable hoof.

I'm not anti grazing muzzles, provided of course that they fit properly, the horse is checked very regularly for rubbing and discomfort and you can somehow keep the bl**dy things on (I've never succeeded:o)

BTW GTC, please please don't remove the muzzle, you may be sentencing a pony to death and no offence, it's not your business to. If you are really concerned contact WHW or the BHS who could send a field officer to talk to the owners and satisfy themselves that all is in order.

trudij

MrsTine wrote: »

trudij - I've never heard of laminitis killing a horse... yes it can in rare cases be severe enough that the kindest thing is to euthanise the animal - but kill it directly? no

pedant actually, I was wrong - Laminitis is the SECOND biggest killer of horses - after colic. I think its something along the lines of about a fifth of horses who get it, have to be put down - so sadly its not all that rare!

Dont forget too - there are many many reasons a horse may come down with laminitis - its not just cos they are fat (though that is still the most common)

apologies to the OP - this seems to have digressed a bit from their original post !!

moomin5

I don't see a problem with it if the pony accepts wearing the muzzle then it allows the pony more freedom, to go out with the herd and have a bigger area to walk around, rather than being separated in a small paddock to restrict its grazing. Even muzzled a horse can protect itself, usually with those back legs.

Laminitis is a horrible illness, my friends horse required a lot of nursing, vets bills and special shoes & pads over months to get him back to health. She's an experienced owner so it wasn't like she'd ignored the problem and let it develop over time.

Is the pony thin GTC, perhaps like Orlao says it may have other reasons for being muzzled. Personally I think you should discuss it with the owner, there maybe a good reason or contact WHW or BHS and let them decide if its a welfare issue. To remove its muzzle would be very wrong and i can imagine as a horse owner yourself you'd be angry if someone decided to interfere in your horses management and possibly put your horses health at risk.

Fire_Fox

Got2Change what reason have you been given for the muzzle being put on this particular pony?

GotToChange

"They don't want him to get fat". Not even that they want him to lose weight.

This grass on this land with these field companions will not make him fat.

He and his mates are fed next to nothing from 4:00pm to 8:00am (nor is their water ever changed but I suppose it should just be left day after day...); his weight can be managed with lifestyle not a device that makes an s/m headpiece look user-friendly.

Laminitis, overweight, bored and lonely - not much will matter when he suffocates.

No-one - ever - has cause to "interfere" with my horse's care (in fact, I received a message tonight from the pony's owners that they wanted to know how I keep my horse looking so well [shout out to lost-in-rates for that]). I wouldn't hold my breath for the BHS to get involved - slim to zero chance of them attending (I know this for certain).

moomin5

Didn't you post a while back about a farmer giving you grief about how you keep your horse, seem to remember it wasn't very nice for you whether his views were correct or not. From what i've experienced its very common in the horse world for peoples views on how things should be delt with to differ and usually there is more than one right solution.

By all means offer advice to the owners but at the end of the day its there pony to manage how they see fit and if it is effecting the ponies welfare call in one of the organisations to deal with it. Surely stopping the pony getting fat is trying to maintain its weight and a good thing, perhaps it it starts to lose weight on the poorer grazing they will remove the muzzle.

captainprincess

trudij wrote: »

pedant actually, I was wrong - Laminitis is the SECOND biggest killer of horses - after colic. I think its something along the lines of about a fifth of horses who get it, have to be put down - so sadly its not all that rare!

Dont forget too - there are many many reasons a horse may come down with laminitis - its not just cos they are fat (though that is still the most common)

apologies to the OP - this seems to have digressed a bit from their original post !!

trudij you were right the first time, laminitis is the number one killer, followed by colic,
you were wrong I'm afraid, but I know you're used to hearing that!

lostinrates

GotToChange wrote: »

" the pony's owners that they wanted to know how I keep my horse looking so well [shout out to lost-in-rates for that]).

Not at all, I did very, very little, its a credit to YOU that YOUR horse is looking good. I'm so glad things are working for you both It makes me very very happy, but its YOUR doing, so be proud of yourself.

If they don't want him to get fat, and he isn't thin....I think it sounds a reasonable solution.

Its great to have a discussion about it all though, they are important points of animal care where what is right for the horses mind and what is right for its body are not necessarily compatible in ''normal'' modes of horse keeping in the UK. My personal favourite subjects....difficult ethics of animal care!

Fire_Fox

GotToChange wrote: »

"
No-one - ever - has cause to "interfere" with my horse's care (in fact, I received a message tonight from the pony's owners that they wanted to know how I keep my horse looking so well [shout out to lost-in-rates for that]). I wouldn't hold my breath for the BHS to get involved - slim to zero chance of them attending (I know this for certain).

Here is your solution, you way in to make friends and perhaps gently educate these people. The fact that they are asking about your horse, and worrying about their pony's weight, surely means they care about animal welfare? I can't say if they are going about it the right way or not as I am not 'horsey', but they are trying!

lostinrates

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Here is your solution, you way in to make friends and perhaps gently educate these people. The fact that they are asking about your horse, and worrying about their pony's weight, surely means they care about animal welfare? I can't say if they are going about it the right way or not as I am not 'horsey', but they are trying!

So true: I really think that the only way in anything is to lead by example really: and to try and keep your eyes on your own stuff, its so hard to do because there is no doubt that loving ignorance is a lot to do with suffering: most people want their animals to be happy, comfortable and well. But f course, what is right for one horse ain't right for another, like people. And you have to mix what we know from science with what we know practically. Its almost ipossible to be perfect, I've seen people suffering horrendously trying to be perfect, which is, impossible. Infact, I find getting things wrong often leads me to learn that ''wrong'' can be right under different circumstances.

The only thing I really feel confident about is that there is always something new to learn and that even the people I admire most I disagree with on some points. I was talking to a proffesional and good friend tonight about this and she reminded me the importance of the sanity of knowing we get things wrong sometimes. In seeking to be perfect ourselves we actually put a lot of stress on ourselves AND the animlas in our care, and are rendered either incappable of making decision dazzled by the possibilty of wrong choice, or closed to new learning.