Horsey money saving hints? (merged)

GotToChange

Spudette wrote: »

I don't like them, I think that they are constricting and smothering for them. I understand the need for them on extremely vicious dogs but on ponies seems a little excessive. It is just a very controlling environment we are in.

This is only my opinion though and there maybe some real good reasons for this - I would be interested if you know what they are.

Me too - as I have said; he has none of the factors that might (not in my world. Ever.) "justify" one.

I just sat for a little while with my hand over my nose and mouth with gaps to allow me to breathe. It felt horrible. As for then being stuck in the middle of my favourite food and not be able to eat it - nothing short of torture.

This is not my pony I must add - but I am now forced to witness it every day. I am not afarid of the outcome but I suppose there will be some law thrown at me if he manages to "slip out of it when it gets caught on the hedge" :rolleyes:

lostinrates

Spudette wrote: »

I don't like them, I think that they are constricting and smothering for them. I understand the need for them on extremely vicious dogs but on ponies seems a little excessive. It is just a very controlling environment we are in.

This is only my opinion though and there maybe some real good reasons for this - I would be interested if you know what they are.

Diet control. One of the most common cruelties to horses is allowing dietry onset of laminitis. One of the others is the methods we use to prevent it! Its a very, very hard one: because research has progrsed quite rapidly in the last decade or so (I, to my shame, haven't kept up with all of the ins and outs of it). Its hard to imagine, such is our conception, but little ponies natural diet may well be grass, but not the type of grass they often/usually have access too....too a horse owner its complicated, to a non horse owner its probably darn confusing!

lostinrates

GotToChange wrote: »

Me too - as I have said; he has none of the factors that might (not in my world. Ever.) "justify" one.

I just sat for a little while with my hand over my nose and mouth with gaps to allow me to breathe. It felt horrible. As for then being stuck in the middle of my favourite food and not be able to eat it - nothing short of torture.

This is not my pony I must add - but I am now forced to witness it every day. I am not afarid of the outcome but I suppose there will be some law thrown at me if he manages to "slip out of it when it gets caught on the hedge" :rolleyes:

I wouldn't et the hedge get in the way. LGL is very, very under reported to the vet, and most of us don't really have the full comprehension of the situation.

Muzzles look horrid, but if the pony tolerates it and LGL/lami has been an issue in the past and is not now there is likely to be good reason. Laminitis is far crueller than a bit of deprivation. He should be getting some grass through the muzzle though.

I'm not very up on them TBH, but I believe they should be fitting with a gap at the end to allow easy breathing and drinking. The design is usually that a few blades of grass rather than a mouthful is able to be eaten.

Do I like them? no, do I think they are the lessor of two evils...yes! In the right circumstances, without hesitation, yes.

GotToChange

This is the quandry (well, I personally don't have one but maybe the owners do...); he is only out for eight hours - so no harm would come from the land. And yet those eight hours must be interminable when he is muzzled.

l-i-r - I agree that the herd and socialising is equal priority - but he can neither defend himself nor interact physically with the others - which includes three big horses that he was just dumped in the field with (along with his two stable [un-muzzled] stable companions I must add).

I (well, my daughter) had a miniature horse (36") a few years ago. The lifestyle forced on her caused her to gain weight that was unhealthy for her size and for her legs - although she never got laminitis. We managed her lifestyle between us to get the weight down and keep it off but in the end re-homed her to a better facility. Last we heard, she had a boyfriend and was going to become a mama.

I have forgotten how to upload but I would post a picture. Think Hannibal Lecter....

lostinrates

GotToChange wrote: »

This is the quandry (well, I personally don't have one but maybe the owners do...); he is only out for eight hours - so no harm would come from the land. And yet those eight hours must be interminable when he is muzzled.

l-i-r - I agree that the herd and socialising is equal priority - but he can neither defend himself nor interact physically with the others - which includes three big horses that he was just dumped in the field with (along with his two stable [un-muzzled] stable companions I must add).

I (well, my daughter) had a miniature horse (36") a few years ago. The lifestyle forced on her caused her to gain weight that was unhealthy for her size and for her legs - although she never got laminitis. We managed her lifestyle between us to get the weight down and keep it off but in the end re-homed her to a better facility. Last we heard, she had a boyfriend and was going to become a mama.

I have forgotten how to upload but I would post a picture. Think Hannibal Lecter....

8 hours is plenty to o harm to the ''wrong'' pony on the ''wrong'' grass. sad but true. If he needs defence from the others then there is another issue...of herd dynamics, IMO.

Agina, impossible to tell from you pony and I must emphasise that noone other than a vet should make a diagnosis but I have suspected many a pony whose owners think it doesn't have a lami problem of having LGL and people just don't recognise it. I have big horses, and since we started a focus on feet a couple of years ago I admit that I am surprised when I check leg pulses in my own (normal weight) horses at times. Horses that have never been suspected of lamitis. Its an interesting thing to monitor on field changes etc.

But I'm far from an expert on lamitis so I'm going to bow out now. a google search of laminitis research provides enough (oftne conflicting!) reading for the rest of a long, hard winter!

trudij

In the right circumstances, a pony can get a laminitis flare up in half an hour - so to leave one that may be succeptible (and lets not forget - you are the only one of us who "knows" this horse at all,so we are all just speculating on the reason for it being there!!) for any amount of time without some form of control is just wrong. 8 hours without a muzzle is plenty enough time for immense pain and irreversible problems to set in,and as has already been mentioned - if you have a horse or pony with this problem,if you are lucky enough for it to survive (if I remember coorrectly, laminitis is the top killer of horses and ponies in the UK !) its far better for them to wear a correctly fitting muzzle which allows them to eat,drink and breathe and lets them be outside.

BUT it all depends on each individual horse !!

MrsTinks

Whoa... how do you know no harm can come from the land he grazes on??? How much do you know about the pony? Not being funny but I've come across horses with some funky allergies - I kid you not but one was allergic to hay! It wasn't even the dust in hay (which is a common problem) but actually an allergy to the hay - horse in question was allowed out in the outdoor ridingschool to have a run round as couldn't be put out to graze.

Taking the muzzle off a horse that isn't yours is wrong - sorry. If you have a concern about it then speak nicely to the owner and explain your concern - maybe mask it as concern over diet - so "I hate to ask but I couldn't help but notice that your pony has a muzzle which is really restrictive and I was just wondering why? Is it a food allergy or laminitis? It's just that on occassion I give the horses a treat as I go round and obviously I don't want to give him something that might be a problem?"

As for laminitis - friend of mine has a pony with this - a gorgeous little shetland stallion - and everyone must think he's VERY cruel keeping him in two very small fields in a corner of the big field when the other horses can run round... but if they'd seen him when he's got out in the grass and gorged himself they'd soon understand... I'd honestly never thought of a muzzle for it - and don't think that field would be suitable anyway - but in a monitored field I can see it being a great idea - rather that than the poor thing being stuck in a stable or tiny field all day surely?

MrsTinks

trudij - I've never heard of laminitis killing a horse... yes it can in rare cases be severe enough that the kindest thing is to euthanise the animal - but kill it directly? no

GotToChange

The owner has been asked - the pony does not suffer from laminitis. No living creature will gain weight from this field - if for no reason other than it now has an unbalanced horse/acreage ratio.

I may not know the pony - but I do know the land; how it is (and I use the word advisedly) "managed".

I have seen laminitis and it's bedmate pedal bone rotation; I would not wish it on any horse, pony or owner.

Any caring individual would not have wanted to see this pony muzzled the way he was - I mean IS.

And the field isn't monitored - no-one seems to give a **** about how the horses are all day. (Again, another story...)

lostinrates

MrsTine wrote: »

trudij - I've never heard of laminitis killing a horse... yes it can in rare cases be severe enough that the kindest thing is to euthanise the animal - but kill it directly? no

Once the pedal bone rotates, then decends, comes through the sole and the horse is rendered unable to move then yes, he'd die. Sadly, unmanaged these cases most certainly would not be rare at all on our pasture.

And now I really am going to bow out!