Time to Buy Gold?

Thrugelmir

chucknorris wrote: »

I've never been able to find out who gives mortgages to buy gold, and equally important who I can rent the gold to, to cover the mortgage interest, so I guess I won't be buying any gold as I certainly don't want to buy it with my money when it provdes no income.

Buy shares directly in miners for income. Adds diversification to a portfolio.

sabretoothtigger

If you have a few tons, it is possible to loan out gold. Funny as it sounds, people want to lease gold for a short while

Its the same as shares I guess, you can borrow a million BP shares if you want. Costs money but if they were getting 10% cheaper in just a few months its profitable.

Also a totally off market use is by jewellers, they use gold which they dont even own apparently.
I guess if you are skill rich but capital poor, this is a way to make money from being a craft worker as the base metal can be half what it costs to buy a nice shaped earing ?

So can gold give interest, yep
Only when its used in a real economy of some sort - not just sitting there, an anchor to industry

So some say this is the basis of paper money or cheques, they were paying interest on a paper promise of gold and it makes sense to borrow so long as you were profitable.
So we have no gold standard because gov is not profitable and was not able to pay interest on their debt, the French were reclaiming the capital and refusing the interest payment in paper. The same is possible now I guess with gold options or whatever 'mortgages' are out there

Satoshi

I am seriously considering a little bit of gold, but cant find any real gold near to the paper price.

I mean its what just over £700oz but real ounces are way more than that.

I like the look of those 100gram gold bars, any suggestions where the cheapest place is? about £2445 here

http://www.bullionrock.com/c/2/gold-bars but is there any extra charges from Guernsey?

Bullionbypost is more than that if you only order 1.

Is there any other options?

sabretoothtigger

Buying at spot price requires bulk or you buy a part share in a trust fund like CEF

I believe CEF may be so unpopular, its selling at a discount. So in fact they pay you to take an interest, rather then a premium for the physical as you've said is common

Last time CEF was discounted ? 2008/09 and it was wrong then too

puk999

Satoshi wrote: »

I am seriously considering a little bit of gold

I've used http://www.coininvestdirect.com/en/ for at least 4 orders over the last couple of years and they've been excellent. They were often the cheapest I could find for physical gold and silver. N.B. silver coins aren't currently listed on the site until 1st Jan 2014 as they're implementing a system change to accommodate German VAT changes

I advise a look at Atkinsons too.

Satoshi

Is there a way to buy silver bullion vat free?

planteria

lvader wrote: »

I'd say ir's a good investment if you think inflation will go up significantly.

which i think it will.

planteria

puk999 wrote: »

I advise a look at Atkinsons too.

thank you. i didn't know they were there.

Satoshi

All those like attkinsons and all you have to pay VAT on silver bullion.

Guernseymint is vat free but then you get hit with vat and other charges when you try to bring it into the UK.

Estonia used to be VAT free but now the law has changed.

Is there any other options?

puk999

Satoshi wrote: »

Is there a way to buy silver bullion vat free?

VAT rates on goods (silver included) vary between EU member states, and AIUI you can travel to another state to take delivery of your item(s) and the free movement of goods allows you to bring them back to the UK without attracting VAT because the VAT was settled in the country you visited.

VAT on silver in Estonia is 0% (I think). There's a company there called Liberty Silver who will deliver the bullion to a local shipping company and charge you Estonian VAT. They claim that your bullion has been delivered within Estonia and therefore attracts Estonian VAT, not UK VAT. The arrangement to get the goods to the UK is separate. Now you're just exercising free movement of goods between states.

I had read from people in the UK who had tried Liberty successfully. I thought I'd write to HMRC before making a big purchase. Here's what they responded:

Subject - Silver coins

Thank you for your enquiry of 25 July 2013, regarding bringing silver coins into the UK.

I understand from your enquiry that you are considering making a purchase of silver coins from Liberty Silver which is based in Estonia . You state that the coins in question are zero-rated in Estonia .

The coins will be delivered to an Estonian shipping company who will ship the coins to you in the UK . You are asking if you can perform this transaction safe in the knowledge that it will not attract VAT or Duty when the coins arrive in the UK .

I would like to refer you to Public Notice 725 The single market. This notice explains the way VAT is charged and accounted for on movements of goods within the EC Single Market and how businesses should account for VAT on goods they buy from other EC Member States.

I would initially draw your attention to section 7 of the Notice which covers the UK acquisition of goods from another Member State . Paragraph 7.4 explains the rate of VAT on acquisitions in the UK and states:

“Acquisitions are liable at the same rate as domestic supplies of identical goods in the UK . So, for example, no tax is due on acquisitions of goods which are currently zero-rated in the UK .”

In the event that the goods are taxable in the UK , VAT will be due on arrival.

Section 29 of Public Notice 700 The VAT Guide gives details regarding zero-rated, reduced-rated and exempt supplies. Unless mentioned, the supply will be seen as standard rated for VAT purposes.

With regards to the Duty aspect of your enquiry, unfortunately I am unable to offer any advice regarding this. I have, however, forwarded your enquiry to the Excise Written Enquiries Team who will issue a response, regarding the Duty, in due course.

and

Thank you for your Email enquiry dated 25th July 2013 regarding a purchase of silver coins from Estonia.

I understand that the VAT Written Enquiry Team have also responded to your enquiry regarding the liability for any VAT on the coins, however they have asked that I also respond with any information regarding any import duty that may be due.

I can confirm that as Estonia is anothe EU Member State there will be no import duty due on the coins.

I hope this is of assistance to you.

As HMRC didn't simply give me the green light and pointed me to that paragraph I decided to leave it alone. My feeling is HMRC were being too cautious and worried about opening the floodgates. I think it is a loophole which we can legitimately use, but knew I didn't have the energy/will/resources to fight against an organisation who could hold my goods to ransom. Perhaps HMRC didn't quite understand the delivery of goods from Liberty was to Estonia.