Haass It All Been A Big Waste Of Money

warmhands.coldheart

Cotta wrote: »

It would be nice to know what was actaully proposed.

You want the "public" version or the real version which we'll never hear??

Cotta

warmhands.coldheart wrote: »

You want the "public" version or the real version which we'll never hear??

Just read the public version, what a joke - written like a poor GCSE dissertation.

saverbuyer

warmhands.coldheart wrote: »

The talks are over...
No Agreement Made.....
Parties still miles apart on many issues.......
No Further Forward on Parades, Flegs or the Past............


BIG WASTE OF TIME & MONEY !!!!


They should all be sacked, the lot of them......... or at the very least not get paid till they sort their bl00dy differences out......

I was watching the local news the other day (don't normally watch it).

It was on the Visteon site getting turned into social housing.

Paul Maskey and Tim Attwood were both giving interviews. I just couldn't stop thinking how incestuous local politics are here. A few select families pulling the strings.

Just a bunch of trougher giving jobs and doing favours for their relations. Nepotism.

And we just let it happen. It disgusts me TBH.

qwert_yuiop

Reading yesterday's papers

So who's in favour of repartition? And should St Johnston, Glaslough and Drum (the only village in the Republic with no Catholics) be included in New Ulster?

By the way, Kosovo has just been partitioned and no one seems to have noticed

BigAl94

Factsheet on the Draft Agreement of 31 December 2013
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Overview
[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]The May 2013 "Together: Building a United Community" strategy called for the formation of a Panel of Parties in the NI Executive to recommend ways forward on parades and protests, flags and emblems, and the past. The First Minister and deputy First Minister invited Richard Haass and Meghan O’Sullivan to serve as chair and vice chair of the Panel. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]  The Panel’s work took nearly six months, including 33 days of meetings and negotiations, and involved some 100 meetings with 500 people and 600 submissions from interested groups and the public.
 The Panel worked to produce a substantive accord that would:
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Help Northern Ireland meet some of its most vexing challenges; [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Do so in a way that reduced sectarianism and promoted reconciliation and a shared future; and [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Be acceptable to all five parties of the Executive. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]  As a five-party document, the proposed agreement necessarily required compromise on some preferences, but not core principles, by all involved. To reach an agreement that would win the approval of all, no party could achieve all it wanted and not all issues could be addressed.
Parades, Select Commemorations, and Related Protests
The draft agreement:
 Recognises parading as an important cultural and historical tradition for many in Northern Ireland that enjoys protection under European and international human rights law.
 Notes the wide variety of other rights potentially affected by parades and other events and calls for a new consensus based on rights, responsibilities, and relationships.
 Streamlines and normalises the vast majority of events, which are non-contentious, while increasing transparency and accountability.
 Devolves authority from the Parades Commission to the government in Belfast:
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]The Office for Parades, Select Commemorations, and Related Protests would have responsibility for receiving event notifications and promoting dialogue and mediation among event organisers and local communities. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]The Authority for Public Events Adjudication would in some cases set conditions on the relatively small number of events requiring special treatment. Decisions would be taken by a seven-member panel led by a legally-qualified person. All affected parties could pursue an internal review and judicial review. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]  Includes principles for a new code of conduct to be enshrined in law.
Flags and Emblems
[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]This area proved the most difficult in which to reach consensus; there was no accord on policies surrounding the flying of flags on official buildings or the unofficial display of flags and emblems in public space. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]  Views on this issue were closely tied to larger debates about sovereignty, identity, and related matters that were beyond the remit of these talks.
 The draft agreement establishes a Commission on Identity, Culture, and Tradition to hold public discussions on those issues throughout Northern Ireland.
 The Commission would:
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Bring the public more directly into considered debate on flags, emblems and other cultural symbols; [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Include members from inside and outside government; and [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Submit a report after 18 months on issues including but not limited to flags; emblems; Irish and other languages, including Ulster Scots; a Bill of Rights; gender; public holidays, possibly including a day of remembrance or reflection; and memorabilia and other items in public buildings. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]  The First Minister and deputy First Minister are to bring any recommendations receiving broad support on the Commission to the NI Executive for further action.
Contending with the Past
The draft agreement makes substantial progress in addressing the past. It:
 Accords victims and survivors of the conflict special consideration, making their individual choices paramount wherever possible.
 Welcomes the ongoing review of the Victims and Survivors Service and pledges to promptly consider recommended reforms.
 Calls for the establishment of a comprehensive Mental Trauma Service.
 Ensures the avenue of justice remains open by:
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Establishing a Historical Investigations Unit (HIU), with the full investigative powers of the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI), to take over the cases now being addressed by the Historical Enquiries Team (HET) and the historical unit of the Police Ombudsman of Northern Ireland (PONI). [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Where the evidence warrants, the HIU could refer cases to the Public Prosecution Service. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]HIU would consider cases in chronological order, beginning where HET left off; in extreme cases of old age or illness, cases could be brought forward in the queue. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]After the HIU has completed reviews of all outstanding HET and PONI cases, it would consider requests for re-reviews of cases previously examined by the HET or PONI. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Should resources permit, it would also consider requests for reviews of cases involving serious injury but not death. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]  Calls for an Independent Commission for Information Retrieval (ICIR) to enable victims and survivors to seek and privately receive information about conflict-related events. The ICIR:
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Does not provide amnesty for those who come forward with information about the conflict. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Does provide those coming forward with limited immunity, also known as inadmissibility, for statements. The information provided to ICIR could not be used in court, but prosecution would still be possible based on evidence obtained through other means. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Would also use information it recovers, plus public records and interviews it conducts independently, to assess the presence of certain patterns or themes involving governments and paramilitary organisations in conflict-related cases. It would also report on the degree of cooperation with this process by governments and paramilitary organisations. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]  Calls for public statements of acknowledgment by those involved in the conflict, encouraging them to take responsibility for what they have done and express remorse for the pain they have caused.
 Pledges to facilitate the collection of individual narratives of the conflict and to establish an archive for their preservation.
Conclusion and Implementation
The draft agreement:
 Seeks to build on the successes of the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement and other previous pacts by advancing the unfinished work of Northern Ireland’s peace process.
 Is the product of work informed by a sense of urgency given the tension and violence of the past year and the need to contend with the past before the passage of time makes this even more difficult.
 Is not self-implementing, but requires approval, resources, and support for implementation in Northern Ireland and, for certain elements, in Westminster and elsewhere.
 Establishes an Implementation and Reconciliation Group to monitor the agreement’s implementation and take further steps to promote reconciliation.
 Would leave the people of Northern Ireland considerably better off than they are today by tackling the difficult issues that continue to divide society.
Prepared by the Chair and Vice Chair of the Panel of Parties in the NI Executive
[/FONT][/FONT]

tommie

BigAl94 wrote: »

Factsheet on the Draft Agreement of 31 December 2013
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Overview
[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]The May 2013 "Together: Building a United Community" strategy called for the formation of a Panel of Parties in the NI Executive etc... etc....[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]
[/FONT][/FONT]

so reading down through all that it seems Hass thought we needed roughly seven new quangos to save us from ourselves - a lot of civil servants must now be bitterly disappointed.

[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Panel of Parties in the NI Executive,[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]The Office for Parades, Select Commemorations, and Related Protests
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Commission on Identity, Culture, and Tradition[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri] Mental Trauma Service[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Historical Investigations Unit (HIU)[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Independent Commission for Information Retrieval (ICIR)[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Implementation and Reconciliation Group[/FONT][/FONT]

qwert_yuiop

DannyDowns wrote: »

Are they reconstituting the Boundary Commission?

Cabinet papers from 1984. A revised border, thereby giving everyone what they want. Or something.

qwert_yuiop

Presumably everyone who objects to life in Northern Ireland.

What could possibly go wrong?

Ever heard of boputhatswana?

duggan1

Lets not be too hasty. With those reports of massive gold deposits near the border we're going to need an 'underclass' to work the mines for a pittance.

As they'll be living and working apart from the rest of us we could call the system 'Apart-Hi'.

warmhands.coldheart

Strabane, Derry, South Armagh, East Belfast & West Belfast.


Should cut our Benefits Bill by at least 3/4 then....

((ONLY JOKING..............))