Haass It All Been A Big Waste Of Money

Ticked

oldhand wrote: »

The cynic in me believes .....

A cynic is just someone who has seen it all before.

fin54

you know what .... I think I will go over to the USA and take a little dander into the White House and tell Obama that to help him solve Americas MANY problems they need a licence to fly the stars and stripes in a public place just to appease some of his congress who are only in politics to get the opportunity to destroy the American government and glorify terrorists ... uh uh .... I don't think that would go down too well ... soooooooo ..... tell me what the difference is MR HAASS .......

GlynD

emmett123 wrote: »

more "peace processing" (tm) over a manufactured "crisis", so that we & the media are distracted from the reality, which is the impact austerity measures are having in our hospitals and schools etc

it would appear that "peace processing" is the only thing that our politicians can speak with any confidence on.

I don't think you can call the agenda for the Haas talks "a manufactured crisis". The subjects on the table are long standing, with the flegs issue being the most recent. Nothing manufactured about that. I'm particularly interested in how they're going to resolve the issue of the past. Some sort of immunity is being suggested to get former protagonists to talk, to actually spill the beans on what happened and why. I would like to know these things as I'm sure many others would too.

Of course our gallant First Minister in the style of his former master is already saying No, Never, Never, Never will he allow immunity from prosecution to be granted.

It's a difficult call. If any kind of immunity is granted you could see people stepping forward and admitting to involvement in the most heinous of crimes. To me that puts the flegs issue well into the background but I accept that it's probably the most pressing matter to get out of the way - that and the Parades Commission.

fin54 wrote: »

you know what .... I think I will go over to the USA and take a little dander into the White House and tell Obama that to help him solve Americas MANY problems they need a licence to fly the stars and stripes in a public place just to appease some of his congress who are only in politics to get the opportunity to destroy the American government and glorify terrorists ... uh uh .... I don't think that would go down too well ... soooooooo ..... tell me what the difference is MR HAASS .......

Is the stars and stripes hanging from lamp posts all over Mexico?

BigAl94

Haas would be far better going home to enjoy Christmas. He has no hope of getting this bunch of losers to agree and stick to anything - pure fantasy!

GlynD

BigAl94 wrote: »

Haas would be far better going home to enjoy Christmas. He has no hope of getting this bunch of losers to agree and stick to anything - pure fantasy!

I think he's going home for Christmas ok, him and his deputy.

They are a bunch of losers though. I've watched them all on the TV this last couple of weeks and I'm heartily discontented with the maladroits we have for politicians.

In my firm and considered opinion we are not going to see real and fair political progress in this country until the last of those who were here during the troubles have retired or gone to the great Stormont in the sky. We need people to represent us who aren't tinged by hatred of each other.

From my perspective the only one who appears to be conducting himself with any dignity and a reasonable attitude is Mike Nesbitt. I'm still not happy with what he's saying however.

Where I'm really disappointed is in Naomi Long. With my moderate attitudes I should be passionate about the Alliance party but I'm not and she's a perfect example of why not. Granted she may be an able politician but she comes across to me as a strident ginger nag. Always whinging and getting on with no real substance to what she says. I'm impressed to an extent by David Ford but there's something about him which haunts me and I could never bring myself to vote for him. Too churchy as well and that's another thing we need to see here - a separation between religion and politics. Is it too much to ask for?

emmett123

GlynD wrote: »

I don't think you can call the agenda for the Haas talks "a manufactured crisis". The subjects on the table are long standing, with the flegs issue being the most recent. Nothing manufactured about that. I'm particularly interested in how they're going to resolve the issue of the past. Some sort of immunity is being suggested to get former protagonists to talk, to actually spill the beans on what happened and why. I would like to know these things as I'm sure many others would too.

Of course our gallant First Minister in the style of his former master is already saying No, Never, Never, Never will he allow immunity from prosecution to be granted.

It's a difficult call. If any kind of immunity is granted you could see people stepping forward and admitting to involvement in the most heinous of crimes. To me that puts the flegs issue well into the background but I accept that it's probably the most pressing matter to get out of the way - that and the Parades Commission.



Is the stars and stripes hanging from lamp posts all over Mexico?

Manufactured in the sense that these issues, flegs, the past etc have raised in importance by the consent of the two sides in Stormont. No need for foreign experts to be flown in to resolve the issue of funding cuts to our schools or the closure of medical services.
Those issues our politician can conveniently wash their hands of and point to London and say that it was already decided there for us. That democratic deficit is never mentioned, which allows our politician to focus on the things that matter most to them which is agenda of the Hass talks.
I dont think that fleg issue is even an issue any more. A few people upset last year, this year? is anyone still upset enough to protest in large numbers? last week a few loyalist showed up at Belfast city hall with santa claus suits on... hardly the most serious of protests and really a need for US diplomats to fly for crisis talks?
and from what I have read of these talks, "the past" seems to be some quid pro quo for Sinn Fein republicans and British security forces to draw a line under their previous activities, or a get out of jail free card. Again, manufactured in the sense that those benefit most are those who have a interest in the continuation of their pay packets. The British evidently, dont want too much light shone on their activities over collusion and by the same token, the SF leadership dont want their past activities being something that they would be culpable for and lose their Stormont packages.
Of course this spirit of generosity is not stretched to anyone critical of the government.

qwert_yuiop

Is the stars and stripes hanging from lamp posts all over Mexico?[/QUOTE]

Considering the entire US southwest was stolen from Mexico, yes.

GlynD

emmett123 wrote: »

Manufactured in the sense that these issues, flegs, the past etc have raised in importance by the consent of the two sides in Stormont. No need for foreign experts to be flown in to resolve the issue of funding cuts to our schools or the closure of medical services.
Those issues our politician can conveniently wash their hands of and point to London and say that it was already decided there for us. That democratic deficit is never mentioned, which allows our politician to focus on the things that matter most to them which is agenda of the Hass talks.
I dont think that fleg issue is even an issue any more. A few people upset last year, this year? is anyone still upset enough to protest in large numbers? last week a few loyalist showed up at Belfast city hall with santa claus suits on... hardly the most serious of protests and really a need for US diplomats to fly for crisis talks?
and from what I have read of these talks, "the past" seems to be some quid pro quo for Sinn Fein republicans and British security forces to draw a line under their previous activities, or a get out of jail free card. Again, manufactured in the sense that those benefit most are those who have a interest in the continuation of their pay packets. The British evidently, dont want too much light shone on their activities over collusion and by the same token, the SF leadership dont want their past activities being something that they would be culpable for and lose their Stormont packages.
Of course this spirit of generosity is not stretched to anyone critical of the government.

I'm probably going to get it in the neck from one or two of the others for saying some of this but to hell with it, here goes:

The flegs issue is still there however and all it takes is for some rabble rouser to get their brain dead followers back on the streets causing bother. The same goes for the parades commission; there's still the pointless exercise of "Fort Twadell" which the OO are going to keep their as a reflection of their intransigence in not accepting they're ever going to be allowed to make the symbolic and victorious parade back past the Ardoyne shops.

I'm with you on the cuts to medical services although I don't know much about the schools issue. Since they closed A&E at the City the service provided to Belfast and Greater Belfast has been atrocious and I do not accept it's because they cannot get the staff to run a service at the City. For some reason Antrim too, a supposedly "showcase" hospital is badly affected too, and that's been going on now since well before the cuts.

Providing immunity for past crimes is a quid pro quo, that's for definite. Stormont and Westminster both want answers to questions, as do the public here. Certain members of Sinn Fein, the PUP and their followers are desperate for immunity. Stormont and Westminster want to see an end to the parade of Sinn Fein sponsored litigation coming before the courts which is costing the country a fortune in compensation.

I still don't see these things as manufactured although I can see why you would view them as such. I think the issue of immunity is a natural consequence of the two sides trying to finally disengage from the conflict and draw a line under it. Plus the people want answers as well as an end to the interminable blether about it all.

I think there is every need for a foreign diplomat too. Sinn Fein would cry foul if a UK personality was employed and similarly the array of unionist parties would whinge if an Irish one was used. America has the most influence so why not avail ourselves of their generosity?

With regards to pay packets: I know your major concern is that Sinn Fein are collecting them but I believe their over-riding concern is to stay in government. The money is of secondary importance although because of their policy of making everyone on an official salary to hand over part of it to the party it's also a useful source of funding. Some of which has been removed by the DUP passing the law preventing convicted terrorists from taking up advisory posts, something we all know wasn't done on merit but as a reward for their "active service".

The Sinn Fein story is largely known but still and all they try to pervert history by constantly repeating things which they know are untrue in the hope that at least some people will believe them, and this policy does work to an extent because you'll find people, even here, even yourself, repeating falsehoods which are now entrenched. Policies like this are well know facets of nationalism the world over however, as is the lust for power, because ultimately nationalism is about power, disguised as emancipation.

On the other hand, the predictable unionist response is driven by fear. The fear of losing power and once again that is a characteristic displayed by all former governments in one party states, shared by Russia, Zimbabwe, and many tin-pot states whose hierarchy is driven by power and greed. A fear always backed up by a violent response from the proletariat who become convinced by their masters' twisted appeals for a defence of what they stand for. In this case it's despite continued assurances from the mother country that the Britishness of Northern Ireland won't be eroded, last said by John Major just a fortnight ago.

GlynD

GlynD wrote: »

Is the stars and stripes hanging from lamp posts all over Mexico?

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

Considering the entire US southwest was stolen from Mexico, yes.

Good point. I wish I'd thought of that before picking Mexico as an example.

GlynD

So, now that it's all over and nothing has been achieved - what next?