Returning to the UK after 5 years, benefits?

MissMoneypenny

Caz3121 wrote: »

some very important info in post 24

If any non-EU is thinking of lying to immigration by pretending they are a visitor to the UK; then shouting "human rights" "Article 8, right to a family": then that route has changed in 2012(?) too.

Under old rules: they were better off than those who entered the UK legally on a visa ,as they were granted Discretionary Leave and got immediate access to all welfare payments in their own name. Then just 6 years to ILR.

The new rules have done away with Discretionary Leave. After a very long wait (sometimes years) they may eventually be granted limited leave to remain, which now does not allow access to benefits in their own name until they have ILR. But it now takes a minimum of 10 years to ILR from that first visa being granted (plus at least 5 visas to pay for) during which time, their circumstances mustn't change. And I assume that includes the UK still accepting the Human Rights laws too? Because this route is outside the UK immigration rules, they don't get any protection from any immigration changes i.e. those who rushed to get an application in for Discretionary Leave before the rule changes, still had to go under the new rules.

Under the long wait to get the first of those 5 visas; during which they have no legal status in the UK; I'm not sure if they would be allowed free NHS. The new immigration law is coming in and one of the (many)things they are shutting down to make it very hard for illegals (overstayers are illegals too) is access to free NHS. Access to a UK driving licence is another.

You asked about benefits: for those with ''No recourse to public funds" placed in a visa, the rules have changed/are still changing, there too. Even though Tax Credits are Public Funds (income based benefits) the second adult rebate use to be able to be claimed by the Brit/ILR holder for their partner who had 'no recourse to public funds' on their visa. Under the new rules, this was stopped for those without children (including those already claiming) and looks like it will be stopped for those with children too, under the new, one income based benefit, Universal Credit. This is to make it the same for all immigrants who have 'no recourse to public funds' stamped on their visa/passport.

dktreesea

The rules for Brits coming home from a non Eu country are draconian. Your best bet, imho, would be to go and reside and work in another EU country for at least a year, then get an EEA family permit and come back here, not as a returning Brit but as an EU citizen exercising their right of freedom of movement. AND, quite importantly, you don't have to have an income fo £18k + a year before your non EU spouse can come and join you. She would be included under the freedom of movement rought you would be exercising. Hence some of the Eastern European people who have flooded into the UK with their non EU partners in tow.

Alternatively, skip the European option and come back here, but register as self employed straight away. This would qualify you for working tax credit (as opposed to JSA). You would then, having obtained WTC, CTC and CB, be able to apply for housing and council tax benefit. This is the approach a significant number of Roma people who migrate to Britain take.

I recommend reading this:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/eea-family-permit/
For sure, the border agency don't publicise this to British citizens because they don't want them coming back this way. Too bad! It's outrageous, imho, that a Polish/French/German whatever EU citizen and his or her non EU spouse have easier access to Britian, and in particular to our benefits system, than returning British citizens do.

You maybe don't fancy a year in a different EU country? Why not? maybe have a read of this if you are in any doubt:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/15/uk-immigration-policy-britons-spouses-trauma

Here's an article that explains the options quite well, though I thought these days you have to have been resident and working in the EU for 12 months rather than 3.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23029195

dktreesea

From the 1st of January, 2104, UK officials are amending the Surinder Singh law so that you have to be genuinely living in the other EU country with your spouse before you can use the Surinder Singh route to come back here. This is tougher than the previous 3 months residence in an EU country, and probably would require you to live and work at least a year in the other EU country prior to moving back here.

http://blogs.kent.ac.uk/eu-rights-clinic/2013/12/08/uk-changes-rules-on-surinder-singh-route/

But don't be deterred by this. Hundreds of thousands of British citizens make their home in the rest of the EU rather than here. And you don't necessarily have to work. Studying a course at a recognised institution would do. And there is an English speaking country you could go to -- Ireland - if you don't fancy learning another language.

Dunroamin

Given that the OP has nothing to live on and might seem to be returning to the UK so he can claim benefits, I fail to see how iving in another EU country for a year is going to be viable. Most other countries in the EU very sensibly restrict benefits to those who have contributed into their system.

MissMoneypenny

dktreesea wrote: »

From the 1st of January, 2104, UK officials are amending the Surinder Singh law so that you have to be genuinely living in the other EU country with your spouse before you can use the Surinder Singh route to come back here. This is tougher than the previous 3 months residence in an EU country, and probably would require you to live and work at least a year in the other EU country prior to moving back here.

http://blogs.kent.ac.uk/eu-rights-clinic/2013/12/08/uk-changes-rules-on-surinder-singh-route/

But don't be deterred by this. Hundreds of thousands of British citizens make their home in the rest of the EU rather than here. And you don't necessarily have to work. Studying a course at a recognised institution would do. And there is an English speaking country you could go to -- Ireland - if you don't fancy learning another language.

Are you sure about that?
According to the UKBA site, they have to be a worker or self employed in another EU country, to use Singh.

With the changes to Singh, it seems they will now have to pay taxes to their new country; move their children there too now (no more leaving the kids in the UK with grandma and keeping their Tax Credits and child benefit claims going); register their car there, intergrate into the new country (learn the language?). Those using that route to try to get an elderly relative to the UK, will no longer be able to leave their children at school in the UK; their wife working in the UK; which will mess up their spouses route to ILR.

Basically, the entire family now have to be moved to the new EU country, so no more nipping across to Ireland for 3 months while the rest of the family stay in the UK..

Perhaps most importantly, they now need to prove to the UK that they didn't just do all that to get their family to the UK to avoid working; and then using the UK Immigration rules. I assume they will also have to prove residency if they want to resume their benefit claims? If they could afford to keep their spouse, then they would use the much safer, UK immigration route as UK immigration rules don't change retrospectively.

This new rule change will only affect the able bodied who could work to sponsor a spouse; but won't - and those who have become a UK citizen and are now trying to bring other family members to the UK too (the UK doesn't allow chain migration).

MissMoneypenny

dktreesea wrote: »

The rules for Brits coming home from a non Eu country are draconian.

Being able to pay for your own spouse instead of expecting other UK tax payers to pay for them, is draconian?

dktreesea

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Being able to pay for your own spouse instead of expecting other UK tax payers to pay for them, is draconian?

When the rest of the EU's citizens don't need to bother to pay for their spouses or themselves once they are here? For sure. The UK is a country that discriminates against its own citizens but not the rest of the citizens of the EU wanting to de-camp and claim benefits on our shores. That's terrible, imho.

Dunroamin

dktreesea wrote: »

When the rest of the EU's citizens don't need to bother to pay for their spouses or themselves once they are here? For sure. The UK is a country that discriminates against its own citizens but not the rest of the citizens of the EU wanting to de-camp and claim benefits on our shores. That's terrible, imho.

We are all citizens of the EU.

NYM

dktreesea wrote: »

When the rest of the EU's citizens don't need to bother to pay for their spouses or themselves once they are here? For sure. The UK is a country that discriminates against its own citizens but not the rest of the citizens of the EU wanting to de-camp and claim benefits on our shores. That's terrible, imho.

The UK as a member of the EU doesn't discriminate...we have to treat ALL citizens of the EU the same....that's the issue. We can't treat 'our own' more favourably.

dktreesea

NYM wrote: »

The UK as a member of the EU doesn't discriminate...we have to treat ALL citizens of the EU the same....that's the issue. We can't treat 'our own' more favourably.

But that's the point; we are treating our own less favourably than the rest of the EU citizens.

Take a person living in the States, with an American wife. He comes from, say, Spain. So he leaves the States, goes back to Spain, where there's no work, but it doesn't matter. He moves back in with his parents, along with his wife. They just live there for a few months, maybe even getting a bit of work along the way. So he applies for national insurance numbers online for himself and his wife, get's an EEA family permit card and moves his family, lock stock and barrel, over to the UK. And he's entitled to benefits, for his whole family, from the day he gets here. He can register with the job centre and claim JSA income based from day 1. Well, he may have to get his NI number sorted first.

For the British person returning in the same circumstances, i.e. with his American born wife, he could have gone to Europe (previously) stayed just for 3 months, got an EEA family permit and come back as a European national, so with the same advanatages as the guy from Spain. But no longer. For British nationals the rules have changed. He can still use the Surinder Singh route, but the rules have changed (from 1.1.14), so now he would have to live in Europe for a lot longer, at least 12 months and possibly 2 years, AND have settled there and worked before he can use that route to come back to the UK.

If he wants to come back here directly with no restrictions, he either has to be earning £18k+ from the day he arrives (£22k+ if he has children) if he wants to bring his American wife with him OR have £62,500 in the bank! Who has that much in the bank in this day and age, unless they have had property assets overseas with good equity and sold up before they came back? OH yes, and not to forget, he has to be working here for 6 months on that salary before he can even apply for a visa for his wife.

How is that the same? How is it the Spanish guy can arrive with his foreign wife in tow, £10 to his name and claim benefits from day one but the British guy has to jump through a whole load of hoops before he can follow the same path as the Spanish guy? And why should the British guy have to go and live anywhere in the EU anyway, just so he can come home with his family?

Why is it that Brits wanting to live in the UK but with insufficient funds to meet the visa requirements for their foreign born spouses have to follow the Surinder Singh route if they want to move back to the UK (i.e. the one where the requirements have recently been tightened, hence having to settle and work in another country in the EU prior to returning here rather than just stay there for 3 months) whereas everyone else from the EU just gets a family permit and gets to claim benefits from day one?