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Returning to the UK after 5 years, benefits?
Comments
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But that's the point; we are treating our own less favourably than the rest of the EU citizens.
It's the same in all EEA countries: that their citizens are treated less favourably than immigrants to their country.
Perhaps it's more noticeable in the UK because the of the UK's overly generous welfare payments and free NHS; both of which don't require people to have contributed to before they can be accessed?
TBH, the NHS has been abused for years by those living in countries where there is no free healthservice and they have exisiting conditions they want treated: so they look to get to the UK on a (spouse, working, student) visa for instant free NHS. Or people (born British included) who have paid their taxes to another country for most of their working life, but are worried about how they will pay their medical bills in retirement, so they plan to retire to the UK for the NHS.RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
For the British person returning in the same circumstances, i.e. with his American born wife,
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If he wants to come back here directly with no restrictions, he either has to be earning £18k+ from the day he arrives (£22k+ if he has children) if he wants to bring his American wife with him
If he is coming "back here", then his children will be British too, so he doesn't have to sponsor them.OH yes, and not to forget, he has to be working here for 6 months on that salary before he can even apply for a visa for his wife.
Did you know that if his American wife wanted to sponser her British partner to the US, it would take at least 10 months for his US visa to come through, even with finances in place?
You also forgot that if he is earning £18,600 + in the US and had a contract for a job in ther UK earning £18,600+ then his American wife would get her visa to the UK in less than a week (providing she hadn't used the NHS without paying on a previous visit when she wasn't allowed it for free; doesn't have a criminal record; or had been an overstayer in the UK).
Or that savings and income can be combined to make the financial requirement.And why should the British guy have to go and live anywhere in the EU anyway, just so he can come home with his family?
Because he can't afford to keep his wife without UK benefits. Isn't the couple rate for working tax credits, cut off at 18K?Why is it that Brits wanting to live in the UK but with insufficient funds to meet the visa requirements for their foreign born spouses have to follow the Surinder Singh route if they want to move back to the UK
Because there is no reciprocal agreement between their spouse's country and the UK.
The Brit (those with ILR) don't have to use the Singh route; they could work and sponsor their spouse.
Lets not forget that the immigration requirement of £18,600 to be able to afford to sponsor a spouse, only affects the able bodied. Those on DLA or carers allowance, do not have to meet the new financial requirementRENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
MissMoneypenny wrote: »It's the same in all EEA countries: that their citizens are treated less favourably than immigrants to their country.
Do you have examples of that? If you are a returning German citizen and have previously paid into the system, you qualify for assistance upon arrival, provided you work. There's certainly no requirement concerning the amount you have to earn before you are entitled to support.
If you are an EU citizen, let alone a Polish one, you can arrive in Poland with your foreign born wife straight away - a credit card will do as proof of funds to support yourself, and stay on thereafter provided you get a job or are self employed. AND you have 3 months in which to get your income stream going.
Neither country require you to be earning a specific amount before your spouse can join you. Nor do they require their citizen/the EU citizen to be the main breadwinner.
I am all for having unemployment insurance rather than an income based JSA where no prior work is required, like for instance in Poland, where no one can get their equivalent of JSA unless they have worked there for more than a year in the last 18 months. But the difference between Britain and Poland is that in Poland that situation applies to everyone, their citizens and any other EU citizen arriving to work in Poland.
If an EU citizen - and Brits are meant to be EU citizens - are entitled to move here with their foreign born spouses regardless of their resources, and access our benefits system after 3 months, why shouldn't returning Britons have the same conditions?0 -
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If an EU citizen - and Brits are meant to be EU citizens - are entitled to move here with their foreign born spouses regardless of their resources, and access our benefits system after 3 months, why shouldn't returning Britons have the same conditions?
They do.
But the cases are not the same.
An EU citizen moving here with their foreign born wife that has been outside the EU for a long period will face the exact same conditions as the Briton, and find it difficult.
A Briton that's been living in the EU for a long time be treated the same as any other EU national, and not have many of the same problems.0 -
rogerblack wrote: »They do.
But the cases are not the same.
An EU citizen moving here with their foreign born wife that has been outside the EU for a long period will face the exact same conditions as the Briton, and find it difficult.
A Briton that's been living in the EU for a long time be treated the same as any other EU national, and not have many of the same problems.
But it isn't the same. If a Polish person, for example, living overseas, wants to move back to Poland with his or her spouse, there are no income restrictions to them being able to do that. Sure, they can't claim benefits like the equivalent of JSA on arrival, because the Polish rules say (for anyone, not just returning Poles) that you can't claim JSA unless you have been employed in Poland for at least 12 months in the last 18 months. But they are not prevented from moving to Poland.
The British person, on the other hand, either has to have amassed £62,500 in funds prior to coming back, or get a job over here earning more than £18,600 AND hold it for a number of months before they can apply for a visa for their spouse.
How is that the same? Yes, the British person can choose to move to Poland instead of Britain, and he/she will get the same treatment as a returning Polish citizen. But the British person may be at a considerable disadvantage to the Polish person when it comes to getting a job, or even being self employed, because he probably doesn't speak the language.
If a Polish person can return to his/her native country with their foreign born spouse, with no restrictions as to income or capital, then why shouldn't the British person, returning to Britain, be able to enjoy the same advantages?
I am all for restricting access to benefits. I would like to see something like no access to benefits for new arrivals, including returning Britons and the spouse/children of people moving here to join someone already settled here, for 2 years. Not to mention no access to JSA until you have worked and paid into the system. The Polish system of working at least 12 months in the last 18 months sounds about right to me. That alone would make young people a lot more interested in doing well at school, getting decent qualifications and working than they currently are.
We have some crazy benefit rules, like being able to claim child benefit for children that don't even live here. Or paying WTC for up to 8 weeks while people are away overseas on holiday.
Denying people a family life in their country of birth just because they aren't fortunate enough to earn £18,600 a year or have saved £62,500 is, imho, outrageous. Not to mention stupid. Name me one country in Europe, besides ours, that welcomes other countries' citizens to their country ahead of their own citizens. Are there any?0 -
But it isn't the same. If a Polish person, for example, living overseas, wants to move back to Poland with his or her spouse, there are no income restrictions to them being able to do that. Sure, they can't claim benefits like the equivalent of JSA on arrival, because the Polish rules say (for anyone, not just returning Poles) that you can't claim JSA unless you have been employed in Poland for at least 12 months in the last 18 months. But they are not prevented from moving to Poland.
The British person, on the other hand, either has to have amassed £62,500 in funds prior to coming back, or get a job over here earning more than £18,600 AND hold it for a number of months before they can apply for a visa for their spouse.
How is that the same? Yes, the British person can choose to move to Poland instead of Britain, and he/she will get the same treatment as a returning Polish citizen. But the British person may be at a considerable disadvantage to the Polish person when it comes to getting a job, or even being self employed, because he probably doesn't speak the language.
If a Polish person can return to his/her native country with their foreign born spouse, with no restrictions as to income or capital, then why shouldn't the British person, returning to Britain, be able to enjoy the same advantages?
I am all for restricting access to benefits. I would like to see something like no access to benefits for new arrivals, including returning Britons and the spouse/children of people moving here to join someone already settled here, for 2 years. Not to mention no access to JSA until you have worked and paid into the system. The Polish system of working at least 12 months in the last 18 months sounds about right to me. That alone would make young people a lot more interested in doing well at school, getting decent qualifications and working than they currently are.
We have some crazy benefit rules, like being able to claim child benefit for children that don't even live here. Or paying WTC for up to 8 weeks while people are away overseas on holiday.
Denying people a family life in their country of birth just because they aren't fortunate enough to earn £18,600 a year or have saved £62,500 is, imho, outrageous. Not to mention stupid. Name me one country in Europe, besides ours, that welcomes other countries' citizens to their country ahead of their own citizens. Are there any?
Surely it's the non EU spouse that's at the back of the welcome queue?0 -
Surely it's the non EU spouse that's at the back of the welcome queue?
But if they have married someone who is a worker, or they themselves are skilled and can get a visa, then they are not at the back of the welcome queue.RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
We have some crazy benefit rules, like being able to claim child benefit for children that don't even live here. Or paying WTC for up to 8 weeks while people are away overseas on holiday.
Tax Credits were very bad for the UK. Thank goodness they are finishing.Denying people a family life
Brits aren't being stopped. If they can't bring a spouse, then they are chosing not to work enough hours to sponsor a spouse.
They already have a family life in their spouse's country. However, if they were hoping to rush to the UK for free NHS when their non-UK spouse needs healthcare, or when they both want welfare; then that route is blocked for 6 months.Name me one country in Europe, besides ours, that welcomes other countries' citizens to their country ahead of their own citizens. Are there any?
What did you expect after a long bout of Labour in charge?
Every EU country has the same problem. Some northern and western EU countries services etc are suffering, as they have high numbers coming in.
The UKs welfare and NHS rules need changing so that those who haven't contributed/not contributred much, do not get instant accesswhen they arrive. The new immigration law in April, is starting to addresss the NHS for some of those that haven't contributed. Hopefully, this will be extended.
There have recently been some major changes to the EU route to the UK, but they don't seem to hit the left wing BBC site. A lot of western and northern EU countries are backing the UK in these changes, but they want the same EU changes for their countries too. i.e. DLA has just been blocked for those immigrants that haven't contributed; UK citizenship and welfare in England (Zambruno and Chen routes) have been blocked for those trying to use EU laws to get to the UK. Lots more changes to come in too.
*Those EU citizens who becone Brits, can no longer use EU laws to bring family to the UK (this law on the back of the Metacalfe ruling on her Irish citizenship, but is much more far reaching). This law is only for those coming to the UK; Brits can still use the old EU law in other EU countries.RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
We have some crazy benefit rules, like being able to claim child benefit for children that don't even live here. Or paying WTC for up to 8 weeks while people are away overseas on holiday.
WE have some overly generous benefits. Tax Credits were very bad for the UK. Thank goodness they are finishing.Denying people a family life
Brits aren't being stopped. If they can't bring a spouse, then they are chosing not to work enough hours to sponsor a spouse.
They already have a family life in their spouse's country. However, if they were hoping to rush to the UK for free NHS when their spouse needs healthcare, or when they both want welfare; then that route is blocked for 6 months.Name me one country in Europe, besides ours, that welcomes other countries' citizens to their country ahead of their own citizens. Are there any?
Every EU country. EU citizens have more rights in another EU country. What did you expect after a long bout of Labour in charge?
The UKs welfare and NHS rules need changing so that those who haven't contributed/not contributred much, don't get instant access. The new immigration law in April, is starting to addresss the NHS and those that haven't contributed.
There have recently been some major changes to the EU route to the UK, but they don't seem to hit the left wing BBC site. A lot of western and northern EU countries are backing the UK in these changes, but they want the same EU changes for their countries too. i.e. DLA has just been blocked for those immigrants that haven't lived in GB for 2 years out of the last 3 years.; UK citizenship and access to welfare in England (Zambrano and Chen routes) have just been blocked for those non-EEAs trying to use EU laws to get to the UK.
One new EU law that benefits the UK only: those EU citizens who also have UK citizenship, can no longer use EU laws to bring family to the UK. This new EU law is on the back of the McCarthy ruling and her dual Irish/British citizenship, but is much more far reaching as it affects all those using the EU route to the UK. This law is only for those coming to the UK; Brits can still use the old EU law in other EU countries.RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
Surely it's the non EU spouse that's at the back of the welcome queue?
Only for Britons trying to return here from outside the EU directly. Not for any other EU citizen coming here with their foreign born spouse from another EU country. Nor for EU citizens returning to their own country with their foreign born spouse.
Why should Britons have to follow the Surinder Singh route back home in order to move back here with their foreign born spouse? The government can achieve the same result - restricting access to benefits - by preventing all new arrivals from claiming certain benefits, like housing benefit (especially housing benefit), being allowed to apply for social housing, council tax benefit, JSA, WTC, CTC, CB, for a decent period after arrival. Why not 2 years? Or, like in most EU countries, until you have paid something into the system recently?
Denying people the right to a family life based on their earnings or ability to save is the worst kind of discrimination. You can only come back if you're relatively well off. There's more family involved than just the British citizen and their spouse.0
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