TRV Continuously Shutting Radiator Off

ValHaller

Associate wrote: »

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While I'm able to benefit from knowledgeable and helpful folks, I hope I can ask one quick question please!

The radiator in the hallway where the Room Thermostat is doesn't have a TRV on it (as recommended), and has a Lockshield on that side instead, so as soon as the Heating is turned On, this hallway radiator is constantly On.

*By the way, there is an Auto Bypass fitted in the Cylinder Airing Cupboard.

I wanted to know, will it be ok to replace the Lockshield Valve with a Half Turn Valve, so that this radiator can actually be turned off (my mum would prefer this, as all the technology - Room Stat, Digi Programmer - is a bit confusing for her, and having bit more "control" over this rad will make her feel more at ease, and I just want her to be happy) without this having a detrimental affect on anything, and getting a Half Turn Valve that looks like this (not exact make or anything) be ok?:

Leave well alone. This is done correctly. Essentially the radiator is there for the room thermostat to call satisfied when the whole house is well enough heated. If the rad is turned off, then the boiler and pump will just carry on and depending on the general effectiveness of the system, you may find that gas consumption increases.

The radiator is fitted with a lockshield so that people who do not understand the foregoing explanation don't get an opportunity to be well meaning and turn the radiator off, causing problems. As your mum is unlikely to grasp the reason for things being the way they are, the lockshield is intended to outwit her. Leave it as it is.

Associate

NEED FURTHER HELP PLEASE!




Just realised that there is a problem with the ground floor hallway radiator, where the Room Thermostat is, and the first floor bedroom radiator. Both of these radiators are a few years old but were in perfect working order before the new boiler and pipes (to create separate controls for Heating & Hot water) were installed.

As I previously stated, the hallway radiator has got a Lockshield fitted instead of a TRV, which is the recommended way, as confirmed by posters on here. This is the only new work carried out on this ground floor hallway radiator.

However, when the Heating is turned On, the hallway radiator and the bedroom radiator (TRV fitted) come On only when other radiators in the house are turned On. All these radiators (5) have got TRVs on them. The Hallway and Bedroom radiator never come On on their own, without us turning On other radiators in the house.

It appears if any, even 1, of the other 5 radiators in the house are turned On, these two radiators will come On and the pipe underneath them gets hot.

If all the other radiators in the house are off, and we only want the Bedroom radiator or the Hallway radiator to be On (which is supposed to be the case as soon as Boiler Heating is turned On, due to it having a Lockshield), you can hear these 2 radiators making a noise – the sort of noise radiators make when they are On – but they don’t get hot, and the pipes underneath them don’t get hot either.

The Bedroom radiator (TRV) and the Hallway radiator (Locksield) will only come On if the other radiators (at least 1) are turned On. Then both come ON and get adequately warm.

The Hallway radiator’s “opening” & “closing” valve on the other side, that is used to balance radiators, is fully open. The Bedroom radiator’s valve is open too, but not fully, to help the balancing process, but isn’t severely restricted.


Rest of the radiators in the house seem to be working fine.

All radiators have been balanced.


Just bit more information in case it is relevant – the boiler is in the ground floor, in the kitchen. There is a radiator in the kitchen that is about 310cm away from the boiler. The ground floor hallway radiator is about 420cm away from the boiler.

There are 2 radiators on the ground floor – Kitchen (new radiator

installed with boiler) & Hallway

2 Radiators on the first floor – Bedroom & Living Room (new radiator)

3 radiators on the 2nd (top) floor – 2 x Bedrooms & Bathroom (new radiator)



Just more frustration, but I’m trying to remain calm. I’d rather get input from you guys first and actually have more faith in you, before calling out a Gas Engineer to be honest. Please read my other posts in case they help with this.

Any ideas what the problem may be and what I could try please?


Thank you.

Mr_Ted

I think you need to get someone in to check the circuits are piped correctly, it sounds like you have a problem where there are rads that are fitted in series so that if one is turned off others go off also, that would be because they are piped wrongly

closed

Associate wrote: »

Hello,


When this radiator was turned on, just like the other radiators it came on and got warm, but used to then shut off permanently, without coming back on, while the other radiators continued to stay on throughout.


This particular radiator after reaching a certain temperature/warmth, just shut off and stayed off; even for hours without coming back on, while the Heating was still On and the other radiators remained on and remained warm.and kept the Heating on for a continuous 18 hours, and this radiator, without TRV head on, remained on and hot for this whole time.

When the Engineers that carried the work returned to our house they were baffled, saying a radiator should either come on or it shouldn’t, and to go off after a while (within 30 mins or so) after coming on didn’t make sense. They also realised that none of the other radiators were doing this, and only this particular radiator was showing this fault.

What temp is the room

"and to go off after a while (within 30 mins or so) after coming on didn’t make sense", that's what's supposed to happen if the room is warm enough.

Associate

Mr_Ted wrote: »

I think you need to get someone in to check the circuits are piped correctly, it sounds like you have a problem where there are rads that are fitted in series so that if one is turned off others go off also, that would be because they are piped wrongly

All the radiators worked perfectly well before. The new installation included 2 Primaries - separating the Heating and Hot water control. To do this, they ran about 24 meters of 22mm copper pipe from the ground floor kitchen boiler, through the ground floor hallway, then up to the 2nd (top floor) Airing cupboard, where the Cylinder is. (This is what they told me they would do anyway!).

They didn't touch the bedroom radiator we are having problems with now. They only took off the TRV and replaced it with a Lockshield on the hallway radiator.

We are only having these issues with these 2 radiators. I don't know if this is relevant, but the ground floor hallway radiator and the first floor bedroom radiator, as well as being on different floors, are located on opposite sides of each other. So the hallway radiator isn't directly below this bedroom radiator.

I can't say the installers were the most competent or professional, but I'm also wondering what they could have done to cause this, because we definitely did not have these issues before.....

ValHaller

Associate wrote: »

All the radiators worked perfectly well before. The new installation included 2 Primaries - separating the Heating and Hot water control. To do this, they ran about 24 meters of 22mm copper pipe from the ground floor kitchen boiler, through the ground floor hallway, then up to the 2nd (top floor) Airing cupboard, where the Cylinder is. (This is what they told me they would do anyway!).

They didn't touch the bedroom radiator we are having problems with now. They only took off the TRV and replaced it with a Lockshield on the hallway radiator.

We are only having these issues with these 2 radiators. I don't know if this is relevant, but the ground floor hallway radiator and the first floor bedroom radiator, as well as being on different floors, are located on opposite sides of each other. So the hallway radiator isn't directly below this bedroom radiator.

I can't say the installers were the most competent or professional, but I'm also wondering what they could have done to cause this, because we definitely did not have these issues before.....

What you are quoting from Mr Ted is the most probable answer to your issues with the rads in question. It does not matter that they "didn't touch the bedroom radiator we are having problems with now" - they only had to alter how the runs to that rad are fed.

The 24m of 22mm pipe is effectively the smoking gun for Mr Ted's explanation.

Associate

Mr_Ted wrote: »

I think you need to get someone in to check the circuits are piped correctly, it sounds like you have a problem where there are rads that are fitted in series so that if one is turned off others go off also, that would be because they are piped wrongly

"What you are quoting from Mr Ted is the most probable answer to your issues with the rads in question. It does not matter that they "didn't touch the bedroom radiator we are having problems with now" - they only had to alter how the runs to that rad are fed.

The 24m of 22mm pipe is effectively the smoking gun for Mr Ted's explanation."


If I want to hire a Gas Engineer privately to rectify this, any ideas how much this will cost as an estimate, as I am based in East London (minimum to maximum)?

Would a Gas Engineer who is correcting this problem need to buy any additional parts for this?

Thank you.

ValHaller

You don't need a gas side fitter, you need a plumber. I know that you have lost confidence in them people who have done this, but you probably need to give them a fair opportunity to sort it. That way, if you do need to sack them, you can claim your costs back from them for getting it sorted.

Start by setting out your problem in writing. It should be a fairly short letter without narrative of 'he said, she said' or sequence of works - just a statement that following works done by them you now find a specific problem and would they arrange to attend to resolve this.

Associate

Thank you for all your help guys!

I will take everything on board.

I just wanted to ask for my own reference- if we didn't
get anyone to rectify this fault and left things as they are,
apart from the inconvenience, could this cause any long term
problems or damage to the system if we leave things as they are?

Mr_Ted

Associate wrote: »

Thank you for all your help guys!
I will take everything on board.
I just wanted to ask for my own reference- if we didn't
get anyone to rectify this fault and left things as they are,
apart from the inconvenience, could this cause any long term
problems or damage to the system if we leave things as they are?

Radiators that MAY be unused are more prone to sludge and corrosion

Clearly there are 2 problems other than the radiators also

1/ You have paid for a service that has not been completed satisfactorily
2/ You clearly have a problem with the issue or you wouldn't have posted on here

We can only advise, its you that has to make the final decision