UKPC / Debt Recovery Plus Advice

SmileyMou73

Hi All,

Been reading the threads with interest , I just hope I'm not too late

Long story short, I parked in Luton and Dunstable Hospital Car Park on 20th Sept 2013 - you can't leave this car park unless you've paid up before hand as the barriers won't allow

Anyway, I paid my £8 or whatever it was as my girlfriend had an appointment, these things ran on and we were there for nearly 3 hours.

I paid my ticket, returned to my car and thought nothing of it.

We've moved in together in October and I hadn't updated the DVLA as I basically forgot, did the Banks, Credit cards etc but forgot to advice DVLA of change of address

Anyway, I've picked up some post and been shocked to see I've been given a fine for not parking correctly - the only space I could find in the hospital car park was adjacent with roadside hedge. So I parked in that dedicated spot.

Photographic evidence shows that some of my car overhangs slightly (I needed to be able to open the drivers door to get out the car) but it didn't overhand enough that would prevent cars passing - I wouldn't leave my car in a spot if I thought it would get damaged afterall

I had no parking ticket alerting me of this offence, now they've written to me at my parents address and now handed this over to Debt Recovery Plus - their letter was not dated but it does tell me I have until 6th Dec to pay £130.00

I've just called them up this am to say I'm calling to at least acknowledge I've seen their letter and that I'm appealing it and also to give them my updated address as I don't want "The Boys" turning up at my folks house

Do you think I should appeal this or just pay up?

Redx

firstly, you say the date of the "contravention" was 20th Sept 2013

what is the date of the very first NTK to this "old address" ?

also, please read the "newbies" sticky thread and DR sticky thread at the top of the forum for advice etc

the letter is a parking charge invoice for allegedly "not following their rules on parking"

it is also one where the punishment clearly does not fit the "crime" so would easily have been won at popla, but at the moment you may have run out of time for any rejection that produces a popla code

ps:- you have not been given a "fine" , only a court of law can fine you and you havent been to court

its a parking invoice , it will not say FINE anywhere on it

this will explain "what is going on ?" https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4835943

bod1467

Of course you are the RK (registered keeper). Is your girlfriend insured to drive your car? If yes then you could always name her as the driver (to reset the clock and absolve keeper liability, so get DRP off your back) and force UKPC back through the appeal and POPLA process.

The fact that YOU could handle this on her behalf (in her name with her permission, and with our help to WIN) doesn't matter and the PPC would never know.

SmileyMou73

Hi Redx,

The post that's been handed to me in relation to this is a final reminder dated 07/11/2013 and then letter from DRP Ltd - just seen the date of "Invoice" - this was 22/11/2013

Hi Bod1467 - no unfortunately not, she doesn't drive. However if I am reading that correctly, as long as someone is insured 3 party on any other vehicle on their insurance, I could inform DRP someone else had my car that day perhaps so I can reset the clock?

DRP lady was quite abrupt when I called, she told me I wouldn't win and would have to pay a change of address would mean POPLA would through my claim out?! Is that correct?

bod1467

If you DO name someone else, you also have to give a serviceable address for that person (so the PPC can serve the claim against them).

Question though - do UKPC/DRP claim a windscreen notice was affixed? If they do, and the photos suggest they may claim this, then my "plan" won't work as the driver should have already been aware of the "offence". Them claiming a windscreen notice and one actually being affixed is not a new tactic by PPCs though. If they don't then the precise date of the 1st Notice to Keeper is important.

Redx

SmileyMou73 wrote: »

Hi Redx,

The post that's been handed to me in relation to this is a final reminder dated 07/11/2013 and then letter from DRP Ltd - just seen the date of "Invoice" - this was 22/11/2013

Hi Bod1467 - no unfortunately not, she doesn't drive. However if I am reading that correctly, as long as someone is insured 3 party on any other vehicle on their insurance, I could inform DRP someone else had my car that day perhaps so I can reset the clock?

DRP lady was quite abrupt when I called, she told me I wouldn't win and would have to pay a change of address would mean POPLA would through my claim out?! Is that correct?

it appears to me that you have not received the NTK which has to be sent within 14 days of the alleged contravention assuming no PCN was affixed to the vehicle on the date in question

so I wasnt asking about any dates where the DR letters were sent, but the original NTK sent out by the PPC within 14 days of the contravention, ie:- within 14 days of the date of 20/09/2013

so effectively you deny the debt to the DR and refer them back to creditor, then you should complain to the PPC that not NTK was received within the 14 day deadline at any address

you would assume this would trigger a new NTK to your new address which you give to the PPC , which is actually what you need to do, unless they are outside the rules in terms of the fact that no NTK was received within 14 days ?

I am sure somebody else on here will tell you the exact rules about that issue, my point is check for the date for the first NTK bearing in mind the 14 day rule

also check that it does not mention a PCN being affixed to the car (with photos) on the day you visited hospital

lastly, do not phone or contact anyone about this again until you receive proper and good advice from here , so no more phone calls or rushing over this

The_Slithy_Tove

SmileyMou73 wrote: »

DRP lady was quite abrupt when I called, she told me I wouldn't win and would have to pay a change of address would mean POPLA would through my claim out?! Is that correct?

You called Debt Recovery Plus?!?! That was a complete waste of time. NEVER phone a PPC or their tame debt collectors/solicitors. They don't care, all they'll do is carry on the planned intimidation and lie to you (as is the case here), and it provides an unwanted opportunity for you to admit to something you shouldn't, thus weakening your case. Only ever communicate with them in writing, thus giving you an audit trail, and preventing any rash, unconsidered responses.

SmileyMou73

Redx wrote: »

it appears to me that you have not received the NTK which has to be sent within 14 days of the alleged contravention assuming no PCN was affixed to the vehicle on the date in question

so I wasnt asking about any dates where the DR letters were sent, but the original NTK sent out by the PPC within 14 days of the contravention, ie:- within 14 days of the date of 20/09/2013

so effectively you deny the debt to the DR and refer them back to creditor, then you should complain to the PPC that not NTK was received within the 14 day deadline at any address

you would assume this would trigger a new NTK to your new address which you give to the PPC , which is actually what you need to do, unless they are outside the rules in terms of the fact that no NTK was received within 14 days ?

I am sure somebody else on here will tell you the exact rules about that issue, my point is check for the date for the first NTK bearing in mind the 14 day rule

also check that it does not mention a PCN being affixed to the car (with photos) on the day you visited hospital

lastly, do not phone or contact anyone about this again until you receive proper and good advice from here , so no more phone calls or rushing over this

Ok so you think I need to contact UKPC and deny the debt, they say they wrote to my original address, but my folks only handed me the 2 letters I've been talking about. They do refer to the issuing a parking charge in their letter, but the only photographic evidence they have is of my car being parked outside the lines - no photo's of a parking charge being left on my car. There genuinely wasn't

My folks have been looking again this morning, they don't have any other post in the house addressed to me - so I don't know if this was inside the 14 day rule that you mention?

Shall I contact UKPC or just wait?

SmileyMou73

bod1467 wrote: »

If you DO name someone else, you also have to give a serviceable address for that person (so the PPC can serve the claim against them).

Question though - do UKPC/DRP claim a windscreen notice was affixed? If they do, and the photos suggest they may claim this, then my "plan" won't work as the driver should have already been aware of the "offence". Them claiming a windscreen notice and one actually being affixed is not a new tactic by PPCs though. If they don't then the precise date of the 1st Notice to Keeper is important.

They claim issued a parking charge, how this was issued I don't know - the photos they've sent me only show the rear of my car being over the lines

Redx

if they issued a PCN (lets say it blew off in the wind) actually on the vehicle they have to send you the NTK between day 28 and day 56 , so this would negate the 14 day rule where NO pcn was issued on the date

the trouble here is all the what ifs , all the stuff you say you are not aware of , it seems there are no actual pictures of the PCN on the windscreen then

as RK you could say THE DRIVER received no PCN on the date of the contravention, the NTK wasnt issued within 14 days , I believe they are going down the route of saying they issued a PCN on the day in question, you may disagree

I am no expert here so take heen of other posters but I think you would deny the debt to the DR nad tell them to refer it back to creditor

I also believe that maybe you could name the driver and get the clock reset with a new NTK , deny that and get a POPLA code which is what you really need here

so take my words as advice only, not as a legal advisor

there are many people on here more qualified than myself who will probably advise you too, so take heed and dont be hasty, also stop phoning up companies without checking on here first , ie:- dont dig the hole any deeper as it may cave in on you

bod1467

If they claim a windscreen ticket (Notice to Driver - NtD) was issued then there's probably no point trying the "name the driver" route - the clock won't be reset since (as far as they are concerned) the driver has already had his/her opportunity.

Probably best to get back DRP (in writing) to deny the debt and tell them to return this to their creditor.

AT THE SAME TIME write to UKPC and say that their letter of 07/11 is the first notification you have had, therefore this is the formal Notice to Keeper (NtK). As such you are appealing this charge (as keeper) and expect to either get the charge cancelled or a POPLA code if they reject your appeal. (See the thread referenced in mine and Redx's signatures for more advice. You'd need to compose a soft appeal. And yes - you're just still in-time for an appeal - you have 28 days to appeal from receipt of the NtK, but you'll need to get your skates on).

Hopefully one of the better-informed forum guys will pick this up and confirm/deny/advise otherwise on your best course of action.