Notice To Owner.

rickrastardly_2

Hello there ladies and gents.

Here we go again, I guess its getting rather monotonous on here re all the PCNs that are being doled out left right and centre!

I have received a Notice to Owner.
Is this same as Notice to Keeper?
Is there a difference?
What do I do?
With the NTO is a sheet "UPDATE DRIVERS DETAILS".
Whats that about?
I wasn't the driver, but I am under the impression its only the police that can demand this information. Is it deliberate intimidation in order to get a result?
Having read the various threads on here, some of which get rather convoluted and take some following along with the tons of abbreviations I am now beginning to wonder whether the initial advice to ignore the threats because "these are illegal", "its not an official parking ticket" "cowboys" is slowly becoming a thing of legend and the "cowboys" are in fact getting their act together to make watertight cases!
I am wary of the parking enforcement companies trawling these pages to gain further evidence so at this point I would rather be vague with the info!
The paperwork I recvd all seems to be within the timescales alloted. What other issues are there with the paperwork that could lead to a successful rejection, and if these would stand up in court?
Is there a page/flow chart that offers a scripted process (if not may be a good idea) whereby it starts Step 1. "You've had a PCN". Step 2, "Ignore this until you receive NTO". Step 3 "Dont ignore this..... cross reference dates with PCN, and if blah blah blah", you get the picture!
I have been back to the car parking site in question to find out how obvious the signage was, and it isnt!!! In fact the car park looks like a kosher parking facility to a leisure area, with the "BIG" sign on a seperate plot of land/carpark across the road.
What do I do now?
How successful are we these days at overturning these PCNs?
I'm afraid of the final figure spiraling out of control, but then again Im reluctant to give in to these people on the strength that its all a bit "clamping" by another means! (in this case it wasnt obvious it was a pay and display).

Any pointers would be appreciated, and I have also been told to be wary of folk "PM'ing" me offering help as thats another tactic they employ to gather evidence.......so please excuse my waryness!

pogofish

rickrastardly wrote: »

Having read the various threads on here, some of which get rather convoluted and take some following along with the tons of abbreviations I am now beginning to wonder whether the initial advice to ignore the threats because "these are illegal", "its not an official parking ticket" "cowboys" is slowly becoming a thing of legend and the "cowboys" are in fact getting their act together to make watertight cases!

In that case, you are reading old and outdated threads!

Start with this thread:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

Then post back here when you have formed the bones of a proper challenge.

Coupon-mad

Is there a page/flow chart that offers a scripted process (if not may be a good idea)

Yep I thought it was a good idea too when I posted the really obvious 'NEWBIES...READ THIS FIRST!!' sticky thread right at the top of this very forum...and Umkomaas thought it was a good idea too when he took the trouble to write the splendid 'walk through the process' as linked...on that sticky thread.

How successful are we these days at overturning these PCNs?

We have 100% success rate at POPLA stage for the last eight months of POPLA appeal advice given. But then you'd know that too from the 'POPLA decisions' sticky thread too when you've read it!


Maybe, read the first page of any forum, not a random old thread you might find when Googling?!

rickrastardly_2

Well thanks for the warm welcome!!! I obviously picked the wrong 'threads' if they were old ones and being a newbie didn't know any better!!!

i shall assess the situation tomorrow but would appreciate some help to beat these con men.

Coupon-mad

The help is right there.

We want to help you but cannot reply to three whole pages of new threads every evening, all full of new queries already answered here. Stickies are the noticeboard at the top of any forum - and on this forum they are vital or no-one would get the help we can offer; we would drown under the weight of initial queries otherwise.

You will need our help at POPLA stage more than now, and it's a good thing that the sticky threads protect us a bit from being led off on the same tangents every single day by the next batch of 3 pages of newbies queries. Everyone here does this because we hate PPCs and we know how to win at POPLA, and we want to share that knowledge. We want to help you win like everyone else does against this scam but we can't spend ages going over the basic ground on page one of the forum.

Redx

its not difficult really

you read the sticky threads and bone up on the acronyms

you read the latest successes against who and the why they won in one of the above

you also search for similar cases to your own

you formulate by copy and paste a draft appeal to the PPC (and possibly one to POPLA for later on) and then you redact out any personal info or reg numbers or references and maybe post in this thread for checking and possible additions

then you send it off with any evidence like receipts or redacted bank statements and photos that prove your point , obviously keeping the PPC one fairly short but a good strong appeal to POPLA on points of law and not mitigation

you also try to get the landowner to waive the charge as well

so fight it correctly with good wording and you should win your case

people will help you after you help yourself, but dont expect somebody to take it all on for you or just spoonfeed you as thats not how it works and you are not paying for their time either , you pay a solicitor for that !

as the saying goes "the lord helps those that help themselves"

so do the maths, do the research , formulate a plan , action it for checking and you will get the help you need , but remember dozens of people post the same things on here daily, especially now its busy near xmas

look at this another way , if you call the minimum wage £6 per hour , and the PPC charge is £90 , then if you spend 15 hours on it (you wont) you save your 15 hours worth of wages , so time well spent

spend 2 hours on it and you are on £45 per hour , think about it !!!

rickrastardly_2

Hello and a happy new year to all.

Having posted on here previously I have taken the advice given in the thread on how to approach the car park invoice issue.

I wrote an appeal and posted it recorded/signed for/guaranteed next day delivery to be delivered on the 28th day! That has passed. I have just received a "Final Notice", so I have checked the Royal Mail online tracker and the letter could not be delivered and there was no "safeplace" option, and as such a "something for you" has been left at the delivery address.

Question! What will happen next?

Also, I have doubts as to the location used on the original parking "ticket". The address shown is for a car park across the road from the one in question and the only entrance to the place where the vehicle was parked is on another street! Would this have any relevance?

The_Slithy_Tove

You shouldn't have sent it signed for. For a start, it's a waste of your money, and as you see, the PPCs regularly reject such mail or find other ways not to receive it. You should have simply got a free certificate of posting from the post office.

You should reply to the PPC, stating that you sent your appeal already on date X (attach a copy), and that you are expecting a response from that appeal. Don't talk about rejected signed-for mail - it only gives them a stick to beat you with.

rickrastardly_2

Thanks for the reply Slithy!

I have noticed Coupon Mad has posted a letter based on a re-think about the appeals, ie appeal straight away citing the stuff within the letter drafted and shown in JustRaiders thread. One thing that has come to light upon revisiting the car park with the driver, is that the entrance to the site has no indication whatsoever (photos available) that the land is a pay and display car park. Also the route en foot to the place visited has no signs stating that it is a pay and display! Its been suggested that I write again and explain that I had made an appeal that has not been possible to deliver (not my fault) to confirm my intent to appeal this charge. Would it do me any good incorporating the "new approach" letter drafted?

Redx

I would say that all PPC`s believe their own tripe about what they believe is correct, the difference is that with popla you make them PROVE what they say is correct, or by default popla rule in your favour (the same would apply if you went to court)

personally I would keep any new info for popla and merely do what slithy-tove said, not indicating it was sent recorded as that may go against you. nobody on here told you to send it recorded, I have seen many posts where it tells you to get free proof of posting only, due to the fact they tend to refuse signed for letters anyway

dont give them more ammunition, keep it simple and do as slithy-tove told you to do, no clever additions or nothing, no ifs , no buts , just stay with what you have already done , repeat with a new copy of that original letter only and dont mention anything else

the point here is that you are not trying to enter a p______ contest on a war of words, you want a popla code so you can cost them money and win at popla, case closed, end of story , you win

add your extra ammunition into your winning popla appeal

ps:- some would say a basic soft appeal looks like this (no info given whatsoever)

cancel this charge forthwith or send me a popla code !

it then saves all your winning points for popla

rickrastardly_2

Will do!!!

Sorted.

(oh recorded delivery was purely on the basis that some other important personal documents had gone missing in the xmas post)