Abusers of Disabled Bays

mysterywoman10

But I will clarify that as things stand regardless of perceived disability or not if the rules say blue badge whether on street or private then should they be adhered to or not?

Because at the moment normal bays are not wide they are ridiculously narrow so if you do have a wheelchair to get out then it's a nightmare if there is no disabled space and actually people who may have a "hidden" disability as you rightly point out don't need them do they?! So if they are not a blue badge holder why do they use them? And the example you give Coupon-mad is not an abuse of a blue badge space is it? If you are collecting the person then you have a right to use one whether private or on street.

Yes know what you mean about the other examples

Umkomaas

it doesn't address the issue that a PCC now has the power to pursue a Keeper with no capacity who is unable to name the driver. Regardless of disabled badges, so you have an unregulated bunch pursuing someone who may not have mental capacity to understand what is happening or name the driver. That didn't apply until it was incorporated into the FOI 2012 act.

Which Freedom of Information Act 2012 is this?

Are you thinking about the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012?

mysterywoman10

I think you know that's what I meant I'm mildly dyslexic.

Anyway I can't see things changing because people can't agree on what is a better or fairer system.

But I shall be pursing further re the issue of the keeper with the Department of Transport and very severely disabled who are keepers and what they can do to protect that group. If I make any progress I'll let you know.

Thanks for all your help with my ticket and if I need any help with a POPLA letter I'll be back. But learnt a lot from you all.

Take care.

Stroma

Thing is there cannot be a system put in place like the blue badge scheme on private land because its unregulated on there, and there can be no system implemented as some landowners will want something different.

The only way is self regulation, people must decide themselves if they need this bay or not, even if you have someone in the car park keeping an eye on things, they cannot force people to abide.

I am not being harsh, but if someone came up to me and said something about parking on this particular bay, I would turn around and say what has my medical history got to do with you?? Its a personal thing, parking companies are not qualified to say that a bay can be used by me!

And that summarises the whole parking bay debacle, they are purely there to make companies money, their made up rules actually cause problems, they don't give solutions, they devaluing the blue badge scheme for me is sickening!

mysterywoman10

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I have a similar personal background and also worked in disability advice as a Service Manager and later as a driver of adults with serious but 'invisible' mental impairment disabilities.

I have to agree with everyone else, you cannot tell who is entitled to park in a private disabled bay at a Store. I used to collect my late Mum in her wheelchair form Tesco regularly and I took great delight in laughing at people who saw me get out of my car in a disabled bay, glaring like some jumped-up jobsworths with NO CLUE as to who I was collecting. And the worst offenders were elderly men in large cars who seemed to think their Blue Badge was some sort of trophy and no-one else was worthy. Yes, my Mum had a Blue Badge - but if I was collecting her then I wouldn't have had her Blue Badge with me because she had got there by taxi - and I knew they are not applicable on private land anyway.

They can't be the only indicator of disability need on private land because that would exclude other disabled people such as a person just diagnosed with cancer...the list is endless.

And this debate has been done to death billions of times on here. Look at this case as far back as 2011 where a PPC idiot victimised a genuine disabled person:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3425191

You cannot justify a penalty for PERCEIVED disabled bay abuse, any more than a PPC could try to charge a customer for using a store wheelchair without a Blue Badge. They are all provisions under the Equality Act 2010 and persons who meet the definition of disability are legally entitled to use them without a blue hat, blue car, Blue Badge or whatever.

I disagree with your last paragraph because that means people in wheelchairs would never have a space as things stand. Because under that argument anyone can claim some kind of disability and I don't really see the difference between private and public land in that respect.

And why an earth would someone want to use a wheelchair to go around a store if they could walk?

So you want no rules enforceable at all on private land? Which is fine it's one point of view but it will never happen.

mysterywoman10

Stroma wrote: »

Thing is there cannot be a system put in place like the blue badge scheme on private land because its unregulated on there, and there can be no system implemented as some landowners will want something different.

The only way is self regulation, people must decide themselves if they need this bay or not, even if you have someone in the car park keeping an eye on things, they cannot force people to abide.

I am not being harsh, but if someone came up to me and said something about parking on this particular bay, I would turn around and say what has my medical history got to do with you?? Its a personal thing, parking companies are not qualified to say that a bay can be used by me!

And that summarises the whole parking bay debacle, they are purely there to make companies money, their made up rules actually cause problems, they don't give solutions, they devaluing the blue badge scheme for me is sickening!

Yes and that was my point the only way you will change any of the issues you all spend hours helping others with and that is by regulation.

No because I would exempt anyone with a blue badge from being chased in a disabled bay whether private or council or on street. If you have a blue badge I agree it is not up to anyone else to challenge it.

Stroma

I am sorry but you are missing the point, the Equality Act 2010 does not make distinctions for blue badge holders, if you are classified disabled, service providers MUST make reasonable adjustments no matter where you park.

So that means you under what you are proposing are actually discriminating against disabled people who do not hold a blue badge! Do their disability and their problems lesson because of a coloured bit of paper?

As I said like in most things in life, people have to self regulate, they must decide what they need, in this, they must decide yes I need this place to park, does it disadvantage some? Probably yes, but that is life, people must live with it.

What that means is that if there is no disabled bay available, either wait, like in a queue, which in most cases will not be difficult as you are in a vehicle, go to a normal bay if that is possible, or go to another shop. Then make complaints to the retailer you just left because obviously they are not providing adequate number of bays for the disabled

Coupon-mad

You are blinkered towards people with walking aids and mobility issues it seems to me!

And why an earth would someone want to use a wheelchair to go around a store if they could walk?

Who says they can walk? What about any of these who may want to use a wheelchair when out:

- elderly/infirm with no Blue Badge
- people undergoing invasive treatment for cancer or similar conditions
- people with cardiac or respiratory or other serious conditions
- people with symptomatic ME or similar
- people who have been in an accident, maybe with a back condition where sitting is more comfortable


...that's just a few who might want to use a wheelchair instore - as is their right if the provision exists.


As for using private disabled bays, any of these might need a safer/closer bay - and this list is far from exhaustive:

- people recently diagnosed with any debilitating condition
- people already living with any debilitating condition
- people with severe mental impairment

and as well, same list as before, and more:

- elderly infirm with no Blue Badge
- people undergoing invasive treatment for cancer or similar conditions
- people with cardiac or respiratory or other serious conditions
- people with symptomatic ME or similar
- people who have been in an accident, maybe with a back condition where sitting is more comfortable


What I find more annoying is real 'Blue Badge abuse' which is people who use Blue badges which belong to others, or who sit in the car as already mentioned by sarah1969 and think that's OK.

So in 'PPC World' and maybe in your world, all those cars are OK to park in a disabled bay as the 'magic' Badge is there - and yet the car without the Blue Badge isn't OK even though the passenger has ME or cancer?

As Stroma says this is NOT the huge issue the press makes it out to be, not as far as parking in Store car parks is concerned. These bays can be 'regulated/overseen' purely by some polite signage making people think twice - and someone (trolley collectors) at the store being in charge of the disabled bay area, helping people find a bay, considering their individual needs, being a visual deterrent to chancers, etc. No penalising needed. Most people are in fact not the chancers that the stupid Baywatch scheme has brainwashed the press and the public into believing.

Guys_Dad

I am still trying to work out what this has to do with Freedom of Information.

custardy

Stroma wrote: »

I'm considered disabled under the Equality Act 2010, I have as much right to use a disabled bay on private land as any other disabled person. However I work for living, I drive a company van, and if I park my van in a disabled bay I would probably hear of complaints from certain sections of the public from the fleet manager.

The point is that looks can be deceiving, and disablement can take many forms, and a lot of people continue to work, and drive company vehicles, and they don't have a blue badge.

My opinion on parking bays on private land are well documented on here, I don't think there should be any distinction between bays, they should all be wide enough to open doors fully on either side, you take an average sized vehicle like a passat open the doors, take the width and that should be the size of a bay.

Most supermarket & retail car parks are never used fully ever, with a small proportion only used fully at the run up to Christmas only, and an even smaller amount fully used at other times.

dunno what supermarkets/retail parks you use
however the ones round here can be packed at times
The idea of a bay wide enough to take a Passat(average size?,not to me) with doors fully open?
do you know what that equates to in loss of spaces?